The Ship Model Forum

Hallo Olaf!

The "Hellgrau" (Light Gray) superstructure color is sometimes called "Inboard Gray."

The "Mittelgrau" (Middle Gray) hull color is sometimes called "Outboard Gray."

I have observed photos on the web of this same two-tone scheme apparently still in use on modern German Navy ships. Being at Flensburg, you could probably verify this or refute it.

The micropunch set should be available in Europe. They are available for $50.00 - $60.00 in USA. You can punch out neat, clear, little acetate discs in useful sizes like 0.5mm, 1.0mm, or 1.5mm. These discs could then be cemented into the Trumpeter factory porthole openings, following the elevation lines.

MfG aus Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA!

I think a two-tone grey was in use on the Bundesmarine, not quite sure about this, it could have been abandoned in 1985? I remember having seen it on photos of some units, while on others not. I served in that Navy from 1993 to 2005, and all the ships I saw and served on were in a uniform RAL-7000 (Fehgrau) scheme. DKM ships were painted in RAL 7001 (superstructure) and RAL 7000 (hull). Befor the introduction of the RAL system, the ships wore two-tone as well. One source states since 1896, can't remember which. Some units were painted in an overall light grey (7038? 7035?) scheme towards the end of WWII.

Many thanks for the information on the micro punch tools, greatly appreciated!

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

Wilhelm wrote:Hi folks! I'm brand new to the Forum, writing from New Mexico, USA...landlocked snd the world's biggest sandbox! But, I'm not at all new to Bismarcks, having built several over forty years. I've bought the new Trumpy 1/200 kit and am in the process of note-making, upgrade item collecting, and repeat research before I build. I really appreciate the many helpful comments in this Forum!

Since there has been recent paint color discussion, anyone looking at original photos will note the lighter gray superstructure color and slightly darker hull color. These were named Hellgrau (RAL 7038) and Mittelgrau (mix of RAL 7001 and RAL 7036). The color distinctions are important to me, so I purchased enough of the new Lifecolor Kriegsmarine Set 1 to (hopefully) do the job. The Lifecolor Paint solution is simple, and accurate...but NOT inexpensive for such a BIG model! Modelmaking is an individual enterprise which should give pleasure to the builder, first! Different modelers face different constraints of time, interest, skills, and budgets.

I am curious to see good photos of the KA Mark 1 models wood deck. Does the Mk 1 correct the errors in the Trumpy molded deck?

My approach to the portholes may be different. Rather than drill all of them out, I may, at some point, fill the background with a dark gray paint, overlaid with a tiny micro-punched, clear acetate disk. The disks could be cemented in varying slightly oblique positions which follow the bow and stern curvatures.

Hi Bill! Welcome to the forum! I'd love to see your work... It really is great to see so many people throwing their ideas at this kit at the same time.

The KA set does rectify the errors of the Trumpeter deck, even down to the inletted square plank ends. It's a great piece of work!

As for the portholes, I did play around a little with punched out clear styrene porthole glass and even though about using slices of small diameter acrylic rod but the big problem I ran into was the crookedness of the porthole moldings themselves. Basically, if the kit porthole isn't on the broadside angle it is gonna be some kind of wonky and not quite circular shape, making it very difficult to get "glass" in them.

Apart from taking the insane path (thank god I'm almost done... I spend almost the entire day working on them today!), the best solution might be to pour clear liquid acrylic into them. I'd be interested to see what you can come up with though!

I had a whole day to work on the Bismarck yesterday and got a lot done. Most of my portholes are complete and I got the materials together to make the display base. I also finished fixing my broken bow, prepping the hull and got the first coat of light grey on it.

I'm a bit torn over my choice of color now. It's one of those "trick colors" that appears different depending on the lighting. It looks good in white light, very much like Josef Kaiser's 1/100 masterpiece... (the color I wanted to approximate) but under normal light bulbs it takes on a bit of a tan appearance. I noticed it a bit on the turrets but it's really extreme on the vast stretches of the hull:







I'm thinking I need to switch colors; I doubt weathering will make up for it.

I'm playing around with paint colors on my now 500 dollar model , trying to get a semi-decent color scheme with "off the shelf" colors.

Many thanks to Olaf for pointing out to me that Bismarck had a 2 tone paint job; a lighter superstructure with a darker hull. (No, I didn't realize that that was the case; I told y'all I'm a Bismarck neophyte!). I repainted the hull in Model Master "Navy Aggressor Grey" and got a much better result.







Now the darker grey hull makes the lighter (camouflage grey) guns look grey instead of tan. Funny how that works! I'm not sure if I should switch colors on the turrets and superstructure though, what do ya'll think? It makes for an interesting effect but I'm not sure how particularly accurate it would be.

I'm willing to hear all comments, good and bad...

Dear Jason:

Your Bismarck build is racing ahead....more like a torpedo boat going at 38 Knots than a battleship! You're leaving us all in your wake!

The first photo on Page 1 of this thead shows Bismarck in colorful two-tone gray in bright sunlight. Here's a source for warship paint chip colors: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/paint_chips.htm

The Kriegsmarine "Baltic colors" are listed in the website under "Kriegsmarine Set 1" (second page in that set), and I clipped those "chips" for the attachment to this post. Hellgrau (Light Gray) is the Baltic superstructure gray color; Mittelgrau (Middle Gray) is upper hull gray color; Dunkelgrau (Dark Gray) if hull bow and stern are painted in full Baltic scheme, and Schiffsbodenfarbe III Rot 5 (Ship primer color III red 5) for the lower hull. Alles auf Deutsch, nateurlich!

Remember, there is a lot of opinion about these colors. The ships look a little different under varying lighting conditions and distances. Your second paint scheme attempt with medium gray hull and lighter gray superstructure looks pretty good to me!

Have fun with your build! And...just as Admiral Farragut said August 5, 1864 at the Battle of Mobile Bay: "Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!"

P.S. Jason:

You should paint the superstructure color the same light gray (Hellgrau) as the gun turrets.

Beyond that, you'll have to apply all or none of the Baltic stripes, and turret top color, depending on the evolution of Bismarck's paint scheme at various points in her brief career.

Here's a good starting source: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/paint_sche ... ction.html

Happy painting!

Thanks Whilhelm, though I hear that color sheet is a bit controversial among the Bismarck gurus.

Anyway, I'm going for late 1940, during or right after Bismarck's sea trials... just before she got Swazticas and the Baltic camo job, so that will simplify things for me. I suppose achieving 100% accurate shades of grey are beyond the scope of my build and will have to be the job of another builder, since I'm going with rattle-cans instead of an airbrush.

Jason I like the light gray you used for your main turrets, if you want my vote dont change it. I saw the Josef Keiser masterpiece pictures too, very nice colour. But I will try using a standard spray can colour first.
Sorry to link to another forum, I also saw this build and this is a light gray I like too, not sure which brand of paint was used, Vallejo?

oops, not allowed to post link to this site. Its the build over on model ship wrights.

Dear Jason:

In many ways the pre-Baltic Bismarck scheme is, for me, the most elegant in its simplicity. The paint was probably new and relatively unweathered, as with the prototypic appearance of the photo below. New ship, new paint...majestic! But, in the photo below, the ship is not yet fully fitted out with all its radar and rangefinding equipment.

As I said, there's controversy everywhere about the exact paint colors. So, what is a Bismark guru? The war was a long, long time ago, and any survivors probably have Alzheimer's by now. So, we model makers are pretty much all reduced to studying the same established references. Seems to me the "playing field" with respect to available knowledge on Bismarck is really pretty even today.

Since you're progressing so quickly, consider a product called E-Z Line when you get to rigging. It is a fine elastic line which neatly tautens without too much tension on fixation points. If you "bump" the rigged line, E-Z Line will "give" without pulling loose or damaging parts.

Love your build, Jason!

Hi Bill ~ If we all study the same established references, then there should be no controversy at all. The exact colours are listed in the official KM paint regulations, and since the Russians returned them in the 90s, everything should be crystal clear by now. In my opinion, the biggest problem is to find a way to make these exact colours appear eye-pleasing on the model, scale-wise, and this is down to everyone's own perception of the colours. There is no Bismarck-guru needed as the ship was painted like all other KM ships. When we post RAL numbers over and over, or recommend WEM or Lifecolor or whatever over and over, then all should see those as starting points. As I have access to them (without ordering via nternet), I take Revell paints as my starting points as they have many colours matching the RAL paints, I just lighten them up for scale effect. For those having no interest in brewing/mixing their colours, and for those relying on rattle cans, we can only recommend to find suitable matches to come close to the aformentioned starting points. Just paint the superstructure light grey, the hull medium grey (although listed as dark grey), the dark bow/stern/turret tops/roofs in dark grey, then the boot-topping and steel decks in an even darker grey. That's it (although I know there are uncountable shades of each). Normally I don't recommend illustrations on the internet, such as KBismarck or Bismarck-class.dk, as their colours differ from each other and even appear different on computer screens, but they can give you an idea on how the different colours interact with each other. It's not all bad out there...

The real controversy is about turret top colours, and maybe the colours of camouflage schemes later than mid-1942.

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

Hi all,

you may be interested to know that there is a large and comprehensive book about to be published on the Bismarck, and another on Tirpitz, both by John Asmussen. Both are on per-order. They have tons of photos mand diagrams andcwill probably answer many of your questions about details.

Goran wrote:Jason I like the light gray you used for your main turrets, if you want my vote dont change it. I saw the Josef Keiser masterpiece pictures too, very nice colour. But I will try using a standard spray can colour first.
Sorry to link to another forum, I also saw this build and this is a light gray I like too, not sure which brand of paint was used, Vallejo?

oops, not allowed to post link to this site. Its the build over on model ship wrights.

You might want to take a look at this.......


http://www.amazon.co.uk/German-Naval-Ca ... 1848321422

I have heard very mixed statements on the quality of some already published books. The best thing is to study primary sources yourself.

Dear Olaf:

We're "on the same page." You choose Revell, I choose Lifecolor as starting points. Even the folks at http://www.shipcamouflage.com/paint_chips.htm acknowledge the paint chips retrieved from Russia as a source for their formulations. I posted those chips as an aid to people using rattlecans to make rough matches. Then some introduce the concepts of "scale color." There are also gradations of color to accentuate recessed areas (darker) and protruding areas (lighter). The final result is not history. It is art.

Happy Bismarcking!

Hey Jason,

How's your build coming along?

I'm still waiting for my Ka set

NigelR32 wrote:Hey Jason,

How's your build coming along?

I'm still waiting for my Ka set

I'm wishing my hull had weld lines! The huge blank hull is just begging for them!

I've also been cleaning up all my portholes on the superstructure; I'm almost done.

I think I'll put the hull away for now and focus on the superstructure halves. The hull is just too plain... it needs more detail. Plus, I REALLY want PE grates for the sea chests/intakes; they would look SO much better than styrene strips and brass screen and I think I'd regret trying to add them later if I had my deck already installed.

Wilhelm wrote:Dear Jason:

In many ways the pre-Baltic Bismarck scheme is, for me, the most elegant in its simplicity. The paint was probably new and relatively unweathered, as with the prototypic appearance of the photo below. New ship, new paint...majestic! But, in the photo below, the ship is not yet fully fitted out with all its radar and rangefinding equipment.

As I said, there's controversy everywhere about the exact paint colors. So, what is a Bismark guru? The war was a long, long time ago, and any survivors probably have Alzheimer's by now. So, we model makers are pretty much all reduced to studying the same established references. Seems to me the "playing field" with respect to available knowledge on Bismarck is really pretty even today.

Since you're progressing so quickly, consider a product called E-Z Line when you get to rigging. It is a fine elastic line which neatly tautens without too much tension on fixation points. If you "bump" the rigged line, E-Z Line will "give" without pulling loose or damaging parts.

Love your build, Jason!

Thanks Whilhelm! I've already capped off the location of the forward rangefinder on the conning tower but plan to include the center and aft rangefinders. I saw a picture of the Bismarck set up just like that before she got her baltic camo paint job.

You're correct Jason, as delivered she didn't have any rangefinders fitted but the aft and center were added in December 1940. She still had no stripes and just her normal german two-tone colouring. One thing you will also have to change is the aft most vents on the Bruno barbette - port side closest to the superstructure. On the kit the vents face aft. These were changed in Kiel as when built they faced directly out and where effected by weather. The two vents on the front of Bruno barbette also didn't have the hood which covered the open vents. This is on the kit but a seperate part do you can easily leave them off but will have to make the actual vent grills.

This pic shows the Bruno barbette port side and you can see the vent which is closest to the forward superstructure faces out and the next two- forward on the barbette doesn't have the hood over them.

Perth_shipyard wrote:You're correct Jason, as delivered she didn't have any rangefinders fitted but the aft and center were added in December 1940. She still had no stripes and just her normal german two-tone colouring. One thing you will also have to change is the aft most vents on the Bruno barbette - port side closest to the superstructure. On the kit the vents face aft. These were changed in Kiel as when built they faced directly out and where effected by weather. The two vents on the front of Bruno barbette also didn't have the hood which covered the open vents. This is on the kit but a seperate part do you can easily leave them off but will have to make the actual vent grills.

This pic shows the Bruno barbette port side and you can see the vent which is closest to the forward superstructure faces out and the next two- forward on the barbette doesn't have the hood over them.

You mean the hood over these vents, right?



I noticed that... it will literally be as easy as just not putting them on I think...

I'm not sure which vents you mean on the barbette though?