Calling all USS Enterprise CV-6 fans

[rtheriaque]

I swear, I'm not trying to be difficult...

Isn't the only difference between Measure 11 and Measure 21 the Sea Blue vs. Navy Blue? In both instances, all vertical surfaces are either 5-S or 5-N. I'm fine with that, but it doesn't explain the different hue from hangar to hull (unless I'm missing a line of the camouflage writeup).

[MartinJQuinn]

I swear, I'm not trying to be difficult...

Isn't the only difference between Measure 11 and Measure 21 the Sea Blue vs. Navy Blue? In both instances, all vertical surfaces are either 5-S or 5-N. I'm fine with that, but it doesn't explain the different hue from hanger to hull (unless I'm missing a line of the camouflage writeup).

You are correct, the differences are Ms11 called for Sea Blue (which was found to fade very quickly) and Ms21 called for Navy Blue. Early on, Navy Blue was used in place of Sea Blue and it was still called Ms11. Too bad Sea Blue faded so bad, I think it's a more attractive color on a model than Navy Blue.

Could be shadows or lighting that are making you think the color is different. By all accounts, CV-6 never was in a graded scheme in 1942.

[rtheriaque]

I'm not sure. Did you look at the pics I linked?

[Timmy C]

I'm not sure. Did you look at the pics I linked?

I'm 100% certain that's just shadowing. The area that looks darker is curved inwards from the hangar deck to the waterline, thus the slight overhang from the hangardeck level upwards will cause a slight bit of shading to the area under it.

[Rich Mathsen]

I'm with Timmy on this. If you can find any of the photos taken at Pearl Harbor in April, 1942, which were taken from the starboard side in good direct sunlight, i.e., no shadows, you won't see any change in color. Sorry I don't have any links to those photos, but I've yet to see them on the internet, save this one:

http://www.cv6.org/noumea/default.asp?u ... April+1942

[Rich Mathsen]

Those photos at Navsource include the ones I was referring to. So, take a good close look at 020644; you'll see sections of the hull which match the shade of the island. These may have been taken in March or very early April, but it looks like the old 5-D is being overpainted if I'm not mistaken. I can also tell you this, from a message I got a long time ago from someone who was aboard at the time: The whole ship was painted in one color, in place of the two-color scheme of Ms 1. Hope that helps.

[rtheriaque]

I'm convinced. Thanks, gents!

[rtheriaque]

Whelp... I was primed for a great night of work on the Big E. Fed and watered with the wife out for Girls' Night, I sat down to lay some color with the 'ole airbrush. I've progressed as far as I can without getting some paint into the tight areas before proceeding with assembly.

And I'd purchased 5-N when I got the kit thinking she was Measure 21. I only have a few drops of 5-S left from a Saratoga build. Instead of a fantastically productive night, I managed to drop some flight deck stain down and that's about it.

Gordon- there's a fantastic aerial view of the Enterprise in port after Midway on page 36 of Ewing's Enterprise book. The galleries look to be pretty close with what you outlined- was that in your references for your Midway build?

[Gordon Bjorklund]

Rob wrote:

Gordon- there's a fantastic aerial view of the Enterprise in port after Midway on page 36 of Ewing's Enterprise book. The galleries look to be pretty close with what you outlined- was that in your references for your Midway build?

Rob, the answer yes and no. There have been some changes made to Enterprise in that picture that differ from the "Midway" configuration.

1) Notice that the stern 20mm's on the side of the flight deck have been moved forward. They are not mounted
on the corners. See pages 26 and 27, the 20's are mounted at the corners.

2) Notice that the stern flight deck rolldown has been modified and 20mm's have been added, see page 41 for
a better picture of this modification. This is how Enterprise would look at the Battle of the Eastern Solomons
later on.

The rest of the 20mm locations along the side of the flight deck should be the same as at Midway.

Rob, I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of your build.

[Tracy White]

Google has started posting hosted images from Life Magazine's archives online; here are a couple *COLOR* shots of Enterprise and her aircraft to start y'all off:

September 1940
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 0071d99808
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 65970fc0ad
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 2bb0e47b50 (SBC-3 Crash)

March 1941
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 6559b16bd0
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 65444d42&q

1941 VB-6 BT-1 (misidentified on the caption) on deck
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 259451a27d

1941 SBC-3 on deck
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 586ac9ec92

March 1941 VT-6 Devastators in flight near Oahu
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 18b8dda57f
1941 VT-6 Devastator on Deck
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 997db2c41f

[MartinJQuinn]

It's a Northrop BT-1, the predecessor of the SBD.

Wish someone would come out with one of those in 1/48 scale

[Blue Devil]

I'm going to start the argument on Big E Color At Midway again, just 'cause I don't have anything else to do right now

Looking at all the photos, it looks to me like the color of the ship is a bit light to be 5-N. I know judging color from a b&w photo is dangerous, but isn't it at least POSSIBLE that it's a fresh coat of 5-S?

Awaiting incoming. Thanks!

Michael

[Michael Vorrasi]

I'm going to start the argument on Big E Color At Midway again, just 'cause I don't have anything else to do right now

Looking at all the photos, it looks to me like the color of the ship is a bit light to be 5-N. I know judging color from a b&w photo is dangerous, but isn't it at least POSSIBLE that it's a fresh coat of 5-S?

Awaiting incoming. Thanks!

Michael

It was 5N at Midway, and also on the Tokyo Raid. Color footage leaves no doubt. This is a clip from it. Next is a shot of Yorktown pulling into Pearl to repair her Coral Sea damage. Enterprise is in the foreground. Yorktown wears original Meas 12, 5-S and 5-O. Her lower hull in much lighter than Enterprise, which is in 5-N. CV-6's overall 5-N has been tonally matched to Hornet's lower hull 5-N in photos of them together as well.

[MartinJQuinn]

I had read "somewhere" (can't recall where) that "supposedly" CV-5's lower hull was 5N and not 5S. Could the difference in the colors below simply be fresh paint on CV-6 and faded paint on CV-5?

[Tracy White]

For What it's worth, John Snyder stated a couple of days ago her (Yorktown's) lower hull was 5-S... but looking at her DANFS, she was at Norfolk from December 2nd to the 16th, 1941 and 5-N was definitely available at Norfolk at that point.. I don't know if in large enough quantities for a carrier, or if she was repainted, but I'd say it was possible.

[MartinJQuinn]

For What it's worth, John Snyder stated a couple of days ago her (Yorktown's) lower hull was 5-S... but looking at her DANFS, she was at Norfolk from December 2nd to the 16th, 1941 and 5-N was definitely available at Norfolk at that point.. I don't know if in large enough quantities for a carrier, or if she was repainted, but I'd say it was possible.

Thanks Tracy. To clarify, I had heard that Yorky's lower hull was repainted in 5N, after originally being painted 5S, based on 5S being out of favor with the Atlantic Fleet.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Hi Martin and Tracy,

My money is on 5-S for CV-5 for a few reasons. First, she left Norfolk in Dec 1941, and at that time Hornet was also still in original Meas. 12 with 5-S. The tonal qualities and contrast gradiation to 5-O is very similar on both ships. When Hornet went to Meas. 12 Mod. she used 5-N on the lower hull, no doubt, and it is noticably darker than all the photos of her in orig. Meas. 12, all of which match Yorktown's look. I have yet to see any photo of Yorktown where her lower hull looks as dark as Hornet's in Meas. 12 Mod., and the baseline contrast with 5-O right above seems very consistent with this. All of which says nothing about Enterprise and the poster who inquired, but I think the photos I posted above leave no doubt that CV-6 was in 5-N at Midway, regardless of whether or not CV-5 in the background is in either faded 5-N or 5-S. No way is 5-S that dark!

Cheers and Happy Thankgiving Day,

Michael

[tomcat Fanatic]

Hello Gentelmen..

let me introduce my self. I'm modeler from Slovenia. Mostly build airplanes, ( Tomcats mostly ) but will start with ships soon.
Just ordered Trumpeter Hornet in 1/350 which will be converted to USS Enterprise CV-6, time period Midway - Guadalcanal 1942.
Just discovered this forum, will have to read all post in this toppic...

[Jon Ryckert]

I've spent the afternoon reading the pages of this thread and looking through Steve Ewings CV-6 book. I noticed in a couple of pics from the book and a pic that Rich Matheson posted to the CV-6 org pagethat it apears that Enterprise did not have a starboard anchor in these photo's. The pages in Ewing's book, 'U.S.S Enterprise (CV-6), The Most Decorated Ship Of World War Two' are pages 25 (top pic), and the two page spread on pages 26 and 27. If you go back to either page 11 or 12 of this thread, there is a post by Rich that has an active link to the CV-6 website. Sorry if this has been discussed before but it was new to me. But I did find it interesting that the ship may have been sailing with only one anchor for the Doolittle Raid and possibly Midway ( the date of the pics is debateable). Again, sorry if this has been discussed before, Jon

[Tracy White]

Welcome aboard Tomcat Fanatic! I myself have the models for multiple F-14s in Jolly Rogers, Sundowners, and Tomcatters markings!

Interesting tidbit Jon! Good detail for other builders.