Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Russ2146]

First, I think you're talking about the Mk 37 gun director with the radar on top. (Another reason why parts should be identified in the instructions) That director and radar was not for the 40mm. rather it was for the 5"/38's. The director for the 40's would be a Mk 51 director. Search Mk51 gun director for picure.

Second, if you mean the boat on the Starboard side aft, it appears that the boat rested on a cradle on the deck. It would have been lifted into the water by the crane located directly aft of it. It could have been lifted by lifting eyes that most boats had or by a pair of slings passed under the boat. The crane used cable (in Navy speak, wire rope or rope, Civilian rope is Line or hawser in Navy speak)

[Rdutnell]

First, I think you're talking about the Mk 37 gun director with the radar on top. (Another reason why parts should be identified in the instructions) That director and radar was not for the 40mm. rather it was for the 5"/38's. The director for the 40's would be a Mk 51 director. Search Mk51 gun director for picure.

Second, if you mean the boat on the Starboard side aft, it appears that the boat rested on a cradle on the deck. It would have been lifted into the water by the crane located directly aft of it. It could have been lifted by lifting eyes that most boats had or by a pair of slings passed under the boat. The crane used cable (in Navy speak, wire rope or rope, Civilian rope is Line or hawser in Navy speak)

Thanks Russ!

So, the tubs associated with the 40's would have MK 51 directors in them, correct? This still begs the quetion of what went in the tower in front of the ex-forward 40? Surely, they used it for something.

As for the boat, the Essex kit has one boat starboard, about midship, in front of the elevator.

Finally, the terminology lesson is appreciated!

[Russ2146]

Well, the island is amidship with 5"/38 mounts fore and aft of it.
There is a starboard side crane that swings out. It may be stowed with the boom either foreward or aft. when stowed forward, the center of the boat would be under the end of the boom. I can't see any boat davits that would be used to raise or lower a boat. Post war, they would nest boats there or have them on dollies inside the hanger bay to be rolled out so the crane could get to them.

As to the 40mm, I couldn't find a picture of the area you are talking about. Then, instead of looking for aircraft carrier pictures, I switched to looking for aircraft on flight decks, having found that for our purposes, what is in the background may be more important than the subject the photographer intended.

Now, you see the 40mm tub. There is a tub above it and a Mk 51 director in it and another 40mm above that. the middle tub would be the director for 40mm. There is an analog computer and linkage between the director and the gun or guns it directed. One director might control multiple mounts. The guns could be de-linked if necessary to that the gun was aimed by the pointer and the trainer who sat on either side of the gun mount but did not have a computing gunsight so they were eyeball accurate as to range, ballistics, etc.

I haven't been able to figure out the tower you speak of but it could be a director for the starboard side guns. Directors are usually, but obviosly not always, placed higher than the guns they direct, from what I've seen.
But all is not lost, I found another picture of interest. The subject was the crashed plane.

[Rdutnell]

I'm out on my bike. When I get back home I'll reply better and send pix.
Thanks again for your input.

[Rdutnell]

OK, I�m back home.

First, regarding the first pic (15102), it looks like an early war pic. Besides the aircraft, which I believe is in early war markings; both of the front quads are visible. From my understanding later Essex class carriers did not have the front quad and some that originally had it, had it removed to extend the bridge(?). The tower I�m talking about would be just off the picture on the left.

As for the second picture, it�s a pretty good shot of the tubs I�m talking about, that I think are associated with the quads, this being a double quad stern. The original sterns had one quad and one tub. The newer ones had double quads and two tubs. This looks a lot like the double stern mount I just scratch built, but it�s not THE tower I was talking about. I think it serves the same purpose because everywhere there is a quad, there is a tub, but it�s not THE one I�m talking about. The one I�m talking about is shown on the images below.

The first image is from the Essex kit.

The last two are shots of USS Bennington.

My point is that the tubs seem to be associated with the quad 40s. The tower seems to have been built to house the directors for the front quads (visible on pic 15102 and the Essexkit plans). Since Bennington and others did not have the front quad 40s, what was the tower used for? Surely they found some use for it.

[Dick J]

Late in the war, the kamikazes started to use the tactic of overwhelming the AA defences with numbers. One counter was to use MK-51 directors to aim some of the 5" guns in barrage firing. With only the MK-37 directors, the 5" could only engage two targets (only 2 directors) with controlled fire. Using a MK-51's, while not quite as effective as the MK-37's, was far better than eyeballing from the 5" gun mount. More targets could be engaged outside of the range of the 40MM, and before they could get their tactics fully implemented. Mk-51's were used for this purpose on many different types, especially on DD's where only one MK-37 was available. This overwhelming of defences was the reason the Midway's commissioned with 4 MK-37 directors, and the early rapid-fire 5"54 mounts (not the ones on the Midway's) had the control positions in the domes on the tops of the mountings. You will also see MK-56 directors appearing on late-construction Essex's, and those with late-war refits. But until such things were available, they made do with the MK-51's.

[Russ2146]

That's true, it only took the flip of a switch to change the Mk51 from 40mm ballistics to 5"/38 ballistics so you could have one 5" mount controlled by the Mk 37 and the other by the Mk 51.
So that's a logical reason for keeping it after it's associated 40mm was removed.

If you want to see a nice picture of a MK51 with associated 40mm
http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/ ... /2829.html

As to that stern shot, the two towers are both for Mk 51's. Note that the tubs don't have to be as big as a gun mount tub as there are only two men in it. If you copy the photo into your photo program, you can play with the brightness, etc and see more detail.

[Rdutnell]

A break in building today got me thinking about the flight ops. My supply of aircraft include 12-F6F's, 10 F4U's, 6 SB2C's, and 4 TBF's. All of the F4U's wings are down, the rest are up. Long story how they got like this but it is what it is. I scanned the flight deck and each of the planes, brought them in to AutoCad. I then traced the places and filled them different colors, after which I copied the needed number for each plane type. Then I laid them out on the deck the way I think seems appropriate. Remember, I have never been on a ship. The biggest boat I've ever been on is the water-taxi (it was more like a big bus) from Valejo to SF for a Braves game.

Below is my first stab at it and I have no clue what I'm doing. Seriously, None. I just figure the corsair wings are down so they are taking off, or preparing to. Others are stored out of the way, but to allow access. Again, I'm clueless as to how they would really do it, so please give me any comments and/or advice you have. Would there be more planes on deck, during launches? Less? Would bombers necessarily be in the mix? The way I have them laid out, I don't have any planes for the hanger, so I will have to buy at least one more package. What do you think?

Oh, and another thing I don't know is, how in the hell they got 102 planes on board and were still able to operate effectively.

[Tracy White]

Plates II and III on this damage report I posted show Franklin's spotting at the time she was hit... this may be of some help.

[Rdutnell]

Hmmmm!
I count 53 planes, 31 on the flight deck and 22 below, and a high percentage of bombers/torpedoers. Wasn't she carrying 100+ planes at this time? Were most of the fighters out?

I really like these Plates. They are fascinating for so many reasons. Awesome job creating them. They hired the right guy. Besides all the interesting notes, it also provides a good look at the guts of one of these beauties. And a plus, I think the antenae layout is the same as Bennington's was at the time I'm interested in, late June, 1945.

Thanks again!!!

[Russ2146]

[Tracy White]

Last shot is of a CVL, for what it's worth. Franklin was well into launching a strike when she got hit, which accounts for the smaller number of aircraft on board. A bunch of the aircraft in the hangar deck were fueled, fueling, or warming up to be brought up for launch, which is one reason she got so hammered.

[Rdutnell]

Nice shots Russ!

I like this one too!

[Rdutnell]

Man, there's a lot of port hulls on Essex Class Carriers!!!

[Tracy White]

Naw, go look at the prewar Yorktown class!

[Rdutnell]

Now that's a lot of port holes!!!

[Rdutnell]

Just curious. In the hanger deck there are two structures, with port holes through the bulkhead to the outside. Are these structures called anything in particular? If it helps, they are on the starboard side below the island.

[Tracy White]

Are you talking about on the kit? Generally, the area under the island was a foundation for the island that housed a collection of offices, work spaces, and the exhaust trunks. You can see some of the partitioning in the [URL=http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... l'Franklin War Damage Report[/URL] I posted (under enclosures at the end):
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... chem01.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... chem03.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... chem04.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... chem04.jpg

[Rdutnell]

Yes, in the kit it is 2 seperate sub-assemblies. I'm sure it isn't in real life, but what would you refer to it as?

[Tracy White]

It's not really an assembly on the ship. I've always called it the island foundation or sub structure, but that's just my term for it.

The Trumpeter parts are way oversimplified, but I don't have any great overall photos that would show you all the changes you could make.