Calling all Yamato (大和) and Musashi (武蔵) fans

[bucketfoot-al]

Yes, I agree with you. The explosion of the 6" aft magazine must have blown away the side of the ship. The torpedo damage was probably limited to the blown-away bottom section.

[Senkan]

Bottom line we're just guessing. I would think that an explosion from the 6in turret would have caused more damage to the weak hull bottom than the armor belt and armored deck. Maybe if we had better pictures. But if the upper deck was damaged Im guessing that most of the damage was done from the mag exploding. Now if the torp damage was what caused that hole maybe the mag didn't explode...need to think about that as well.

[bucketfoot-al]

Yup. It was some combination of the two because we know that the 4 torpedoes detonated from both the USN accounts and Yoshida's account .. we also know that there was a second explosion from the area of the 6" rear magazine about 5 seconds or so after the big one that blew the ship apart (which second explosion saved Yoshida's life by propelling him to the surface).

[Bill Clarke]

None of the photos in your archive will open. Aslo what is the gif from the Futabayasha video?

[Senkan]

I think the gifs he mentioned is the animated gif movie playing on his website.

I can get on his website. Try again or try another browser.

[Senkan]

Here are some pics on progress on my 1/200 Yamato. On the directors I was going to shave off the sides since it the top is angular but was afraid I would damage the part. Probably wish I did when things are done. Used 1/200 and 1/350 stairs for the director face.

The rivets are made from metal tape and a rivet maker by Trumpeter. Yes. It was a major pain in the arse.

Don't worry Timmy C. I'm going to make a work in progress thread. Just have to get all my posts together.

[prowannab]

I hate to be devil's advocate, but what is the possibility of a torpedo setting off a boiler. I know gents, But I really believe that this boiler thing needs to be disgusts in a serious manner. I know that it is not of conventional thinking ,but I like to think out of the box.Like I said before, The aft main turret magazine is way far behind the damage zone, and If you take a serious look at it the aft 6" turret is still way far behind the damage zone. The engine room and the boilers are in perfect alignment with the aft damage.After going through the US Navy record of tabular movement. There is a lot to be desired and yet answered. I know that what I'm saying is not of the conventional thinking, but that has to me at least have a chance of consideration.

[prowannab]

Also ,I know that the starboard engine room was filled with water, and I also know that was the list she had carried. What I also know is that sound and or percussion waves travel better through water than what they do through open air. So to me this would also increase the force on the exterior hull that was in the water at the time of detonation.So what do you say. Just a thought.

[Senkan]

I'm thinking that if there is water in an area it will damper an explosion. Did a boiler blow up? Maybe. Could it cause that kinda damage? Maybe. Was Yamato's deck stained black before the mission? Maybe. Was Yamato's crane tower removed before the last battle? Maybe.

I'm guessing what we're looking for here is the most probable. Cause there is no way of knowing what the facts are.

[Bill Clarke]

Here's a better shot of the Tamiya wreck dio, that hole could not have been made by torpedoes.

[bucketfoot-al]

4 torpedoes hit the bottom; the 6" magazine explosion blew out the side of the ship. That IS where they hit. How big the initial hole was we don't know because the magazine detonation likely blew a much larger hole in the same area...

[Senkan]

And the 4 torp hits there is why the hole is to starboard?

[bucketfoot-al]

Lt Stetson had the depth of his flight's torpedoes adjusted to 20 feet after redirecting from the sinking Yahagi to Yamato. The ship was listing to port so badly that her red-leaded underbelly was well above the water on the starboard side. She was doing no more than 10-12 knots.

They dropped in formation, at point blank range, aiming for the starboard side because the torpedoes would hit below the armor belt (on her bottom), which is exactly what happened. Stetson saw 4 torpedo wakes heading straight for the ship.

The explosion was so much greater than any earlier torpedo hit that it threw everyone on the bridge to the floor. As Yoshida noted, "this mysterious torpedo had the power of several airborne torpedoes", and "the needle of the inclinometer takes a marked leap" ie the ship started to roll over almost immediately after this 'coup de grace'. Stetson's torpedoes hit at 1417 hours. The ship capsized at 1420 hours and blew up at 1423 hours.

In other words, the damage from this strike was so catastrophic that it pretty much rolled the ship over. As I noted above, the original hole was almost certainly made much larger by the explosion of the 6" aft powder magazine.

[Senkan]

I don't want to get into a war over what happened. But why would a ship listing to port capsize to port faster because of 4 torpedo hits to starboard? How would that cause the inclinometer to take a "marked leap"? Putting more water into the starboard side would have helped the list.

I (personal opinion here) don't think those hits had anything to do with the ship sinking any faster. Regarding the crew being thrown to the floor at the time the torpedoes hit the list was what..35 degrees? They probably had to hold something just to stand up anyway. And the 'coup de grace' wasn't those 4 torpedoes. The ship was doomed way before then. When they couldn't stop the list..it was over. Those 4 torpedoes were wasted in my opinion.

[prowannab]

I have to agree with Senkan here.If the ship was in such a list the people in the bridge would've( in my opinion) felt a much higher degree of list,So to me they would've almost already been on the walls or the floor.As far as LT.Stetson goes.I don't discount him and his flight crew shooting off 4 torpedoes at the ship.But why would they shoot them at a ship that was obviously already in her death throws, when there were at least 6 more targets that were still in the fight.
Still my main opinion that I'm trying to raise is that the 6" and #3 main turret powder magazines are aft of that major whole in the side.If the 6" powder magazine was forward of the turret, that would explain it. If from what I've seen all the powder magazines were directly below that turret.
Now ,because the hanger bay, and the workshops are also located around that area, I can see that the 6" powder was kept forward as to make space for the a fore mentioned.But from what I've seen of the wreckage,I and I stress ( I ) haven't seen anything of the funnel. So in my opinion That also strengthens my case of the boilers going up. But still it's just my guess and as usual I'm probably wrong.

[Marco_Trigo]

If the Yamato was listing that much, water entering through that hole would more likely pour over to the lower port side much faster than it would right the ship up. With a hole that big, I can't imagine an explosion doing that to the hull wouldn't have done the same to the interior of the ship, destroying any watertight bulkheads, once again meaning water rushing in wouldn't counterflood but flood the port side even faster.

Marco

[bucketfoot-al]

Agree Marco. I think this is precisely what happened. The 4 torpedoes tore the bottom out of the ship, not the starboard side. The lack of armor there means that these detonations exploded right through to the center of the ship, in all likelihood. The observation that the list was steadily growing, and that it became rapid following that final attack is testified to by Yoshida. It was the 'coup de grace', aka the final blow that pushed her over. Of course she was doomed anyway, but it would have taken her longer to sink.

I agree that they could have gone after the destroyers, but for whatever reason Stetson decided to go for Yamato. She was probably much sexier.

[prowannab]

A little food for thought,I think that this story has some discrepancies with what was the official report,and what has been stated here. Just something to think about.
http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/yamato.html

[bucketfoot-al]

Some interesting observations, particularly from the back-seat gunner (Wiclund) who was on Lt Stetson's flight. Now I know that there were 6 torpedo planes on that flight - Spurr wasn't quite clear on that. Some of his speculation is self-serving (ie he was the only one who adjusted his torpedo to run at 23 feet), and his "real" story suffers from the same problem as every other "real story" - it is the observation of one man out of hundreds who were flying that day. It is his view, limited by where he was and what he saw.

In any event Spurr's book is well-researched enough that I don't think anyone has seriously challenged it.

On another note, the author of the webpage carries over the incorrect figures for the number of men on board Yamato (there were over 3300) or the number that died (Over 3000). So that unfortunately makes the website's credibility suffer a little.

The quoted account from Wicllund about dodging geysers from Yamato's 18" shells is fantasy. If there were such geysers they would have been from the smaller caliber guns (6" or 5"). The 18" guns fired at the USN planes from a distance and then remained silent. They were of no use at close range, and could not be fired with the AA crews on deck without killing or maiming them. I also note that as the tail gunner, Wiclund would have had no clue what guns were firing or from where. They may well have been 5" shells from the 4 remaining destroyers. However, the entire story may be an embellishment, because:

By the time Wicklund got there, Yamato was listing heavily to port, and it was not possible to fire any of the main or secondary batteries as their shells could not be safely transported any longer, per Yoshida. By the time this gentleman got there the Yamato was basically defenseless, having taken probably 20+ bombs and countless thousands of .50 cal rounds and dozens of rockets that basically had wiped out the AA by then; furthermore, since he presumably dropped on the starboard side, there was probably no fire in his direction due to the list. That is clear from the other accounts. (That is not to say that they weren't taking fire from the 4 remaining destroyers - they certainly were - but from Yamato's starboard side, unlikely, for the reasons listed above.)

The memory of old men can sometimes play tricks, embellishments may grow, etc. I don't think this fellow was lying intentionally, but his account does have some major holes in it...

[Senkan]

Got a question. Would the encased 25 mm guns get their ammo from outside or would the ammo be inside?