Calling all Spruance-class DD fans

[Xanthar]

Where could one find good drawings of the Hull lines for a Spruance?
I ordered the 1/96 and 1/192 lines plans from Floating Drydock a year or so ago and was very disappointed with the terrible photocopies I received : (

[Tracy White]

I can say that the plans I'm working on are just decks and have no hull lines, so they won't be of any help there.

[Tracy White]

Frames != hull lines

I mean yeah, between the deck plans and those stations you could fake it close enough for many, but it's not the same as actual hull lines (Source).

[AyalaBotto]

HI,

I believe the following ships of the Spruance Class Destroyer received the ABL's as well as the FWD VLS cells, namely:

DD 974 Comte De Grasse
DD 976 Merrill
DD 979 Conolly
DD 983 John Rodgers
DD 984 Leftwich
DD 989 Deyo
DD 990 Ingersoll

My question is:
Any of the ships mentioned above also received the 21-cell RIM-116 - Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) launcher mounted on the starboard fantail?


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

[AyalaBotto]

Hi David,

Thanks for clarifying this issue.
So, all ships of the Spruance Class with the ABL never received the AFT VLS cells neither the 21-cell RIM-116 - Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM).

As for the others with the FWD VLS cells, all of them received the RIM-116 mounted on the starboard fantail?


Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

[maxim]

I suspect no: the RAM launcher was a late modification, the VLS launcher much earlier. There were several later modifications, e.g. broadening of the hangar on both sides, new bases for the Phalanx guns, new positions for ECM etc. The were only executed on some ships.

[AyalaBotto]

AyalaBotto, none of the Spruance class had aft vls installed as no place to put them.

Hi David,

you're right. I meant FWD and not AFT.
I already correct my previous post.

thanks.
regards,
Ayala Botto

[Xanthar]

I wouldn't mind trying to fake it.
Are those stations and deck plans available?

Frames != hull lines

I mean yeah, between the deck plans and those stations you could fake it close enough for many, but it's not the same as actual hull lines (Source).

[Tracy White]

I've been working on stitching the originals back together and making them print better. I am *not* fixing the distortions caused by rippled and bubbled paper other than when necessary to smoothly merge two plans, but they'll make a good placement and detail guide. Here's what I have so far:

Imgur Gallery

At this time I have six more to post (12 images to merge into six). The Navy posted plates 8-13 and 16, so there is significant "data" missing. The main batch is the 03 level down to the second platform and four transverse views.

[Guest]

Hello all

I have some issues, specificly about the first ship of the Spruance-class, the own USS Spruance (DD 963).

In my research, I realized that the VLS was introduced in a refit circa 1986. And I have a picture of the Spruance in which the ship still had the black masts, circa 1990. On the other hand, I have another image, circa 1991, in which the vessel didn't have the black mast anymore (I don't know how to add images in this kind of forum to exemplify because my pictures are in my computer, not in Instagram, Facebook, etc.).

That is, I think that there were some structural improvements in a "1991 second major refit", but I didn't find documentation or images to support such hypothesis.

In this "1991 refit", the masts got the same color of the superstructure between 1990 and 1991. This is one of my issues: I wonder when and why.

Other issue: how was the aft part of the superstructure, on board (above the hangar) ? Because, in the 1980's pictures, there were a few structures in this part. In the 2000's pictures, this part of the ship seems to have much more details (e.g., the Phalanx CIWS wasn't in a "plataform" like the 2000's pictures).

Anyone can help me with this issues ?

[Timmy C]

If your first question is "why did they stop painting the masts black?", then I think I recall reading that it was to reduce the contrast of the ships to make them less obvious to optically-guided missiles in preparation for the Gulf War. Black was useful in hiding the exhaust stains, but apparently showed up more clearly on sensors.

For the second question, are you asking "what changes were made to the aft superstructure on top of the hangar?" If so, the obvious ones are the adding of the "chair" to the Phalanx, as well as the SLQ-32 electronic warfare antenna under/next to it.

[Tracy White]

If your first question is "why did they stop painting the masts black?", then I think I recall reading that it was to reduce the contrast of the ships to make them less obvious to optically-guided missiles in preparation for the Gulf War. Black was useful in hiding the exhaust stains, but apparently showed up more clearly on sensors.

This is why they also switched to low-visibility hull numbers on the bow. White numbers with a hard black shadow offer about the best contrast a seeker head could want.

[alexmd]

Thank you guys for the explanation. It makes sense now to me why they changed the color of the masts and the numbers.

Other question is when ? Right before the Gulf War ?

And I liked the term "chair" - it's more appropriated than "plataform".

However, the issue remains: how was the aft part of the superstructure, on board (above the hangar) ? I have a picture (I'll try to post as a file) but is from the decomissioning cerimony, with the "chair" and other modifications - probably pos-1991.

My question is how was this part of the vessel before such modifications ? I have no so good pictures of this part.

[alexmd]

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix3/05963107.jpg June 1987
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596334.jpg March 28 1991

Tks!

And, that's the point: almost all images of this period from 1987 to 1991 have not (so) good resolution. And, when they have, they don't show the part above the hangar, with the Phalanx CIWS.

[maxim]

I would also consider the early 1990s, i.e. mainly after 1991 as the timeframe for painting the masts grey.

[SumGui]

Hello all

I have some issues, specificly about the first ship of the Spruance-class, the own USS Spruance (DD 963).

In my research, I realized that the VLS was introduced in a refit circa 1986. And I have a picture of the Spruance in which the ship still had the black masts, circa 1990. On the other hand, I have another image, circa 1991, in which the vessel didn't have the black mast anymore (I don't know how to add images in this kind of forum to exemplify because my pictures are in my computer, not in Instagram, Facebook, etc.).

That is, I think that there were some structural improvements in a "1991 second major refit", but I didn't find documentation or images to support such hypothesis.

In this "1991 refit", the masts got the same color of the superstructure between 1990 and 1991. This is one of my issues: I wonder when and why.

Other issue: how was the aft part of the superstructure, on board (above the hangar) ? Because, in the 1980's pictures, there were a few structures in this part. In the 2000's pictures, this part of the ship seems to have much more details (e.g., the Phalanx CIWS wasn't in a "plataform" like the 2000's pictures).

Anyone can help me with this issues ?

There was a separate refit which altered the Hangar - it was expanded to handle the SH-60 helicopter (LAMPS III), which is larger than the SH-2 (LAMPS I) the Spruance class handled on original build. The hangar was expanded to match the hull side to gain width.

So you are not seeing things, the hangar did change at a refit separate from the VLS fitting.

However, the change in color of the stacks was for the reasons mentioned in posts above, and was not a function of the refit, but it did happen at nearly the same time in many cases.

[alexmd]

USS PAUL F. FOSTER (DD-964)
Sydney, Australia September 1986 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596418.jpg
May 12 1991 in Hong Kong Harbor http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596407.jpg
Vancouver September 7 1999 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596414.jpg
At Port Hueneme, California, May 29 2005 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596445.jpg

Hi David, thank you !

This is my next "strategy". When all possibilities for get Spruance images run out, I will try to get the pictures of the DD-964 in the same period of time I need.

Alex

[alexmd]

Hello all

I have some issues, specificly about the first ship of the Spruance-class, the own USS Spruance (DD 963).

In my research, I realized that the VLS was introduced in a refit circa 1986. And I have a picture of the Spruance in which the ship still had the black masts, circa 1990. On the other hand, I have another image, circa 1991, in which the vessel didn't have the black mast anymore (I don't know how to add images in this kind of forum to exemplify because my pictures are in my computer, not in Instagram, Facebook, etc.).

That is, I think that there were some structural improvements in a "1991 second major refit", but I didn't find documentation or images to support such hypothesis.

In this "1991 refit", the masts got the same color of the superstructure between 1990 and 1991. This is one of my issues: I wonder when and why.

Other issue: how was the aft part of the superstructure, on board (above the hangar) ? Because, in the 1980's pictures, there were a few structures in this part. In the 2000's pictures, this part of the ship seems to have much more details (e.g., the Phalanx CIWS wasn't in a "plataform" like the 2000's pictures).

Anyone can help me with this issues ?

There was a separate refit which altered the Hangar - it was expanded to handle the SH-60 helicopter (LAMPS III), which is larger than the SH-2 (LAMPS I) the Spruance class handled on original build. The hangar was expanded to match the hull side to gain width.

So you are not seeing things, the hangar did change at a refit separate from the VLS fitting.

However, the change in color of the stacks was for the reasons mentioned in posts above, and was not a function of the refit, but it did happen at nearly the same time in many cases.

That's interesting, thank you for the information. Unfortunately I think that there's not details (even, images) about this hangar refit.

[alexmd]

October 16 2004 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0596399.jpg hanger is full width of hull.
March 28 1991 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596334.jpg

USS HAYLER (DD-997)
May 1992 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0599722.jpg
July 10 1994 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0599727.jpg
January 29 1997 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0599756.jpg

USS PAUL F. FOSTER (DD-964)
September 7 1999 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596414.jpg

USS KINKAID (DD-965)
June 17, 2002 http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0596509.jpg

Very thanks again, David !

I've already downloaded the new images in my computer.

Alex

[alexmd]

this is the site I'm getting them from. http://www.navsource.org/
I have about 4+ models of the 1/350 scale Spruances that I'm slowly working on to show the different variances in configuration plus about an equal numbers of the aegis cruisers to do the same & also do the 1st & last ships of the Kidd class ddg.

Wow! I'm trying to build only one ship of this class and I almost have no time, I can't imagine how is to deal with more models.