APA project

[Fliger747]

Ah, rainy days! Making pulleys. So far about 50 of the little buggers and I am sure there will be more. Then there are the 50 or so overboard discharge pipes, so far I have made one. If there is a square centimeter without something on it, I've overlooked something.

No cruise ship, I can't imagine the 1200 Marines had any deck space to promenade on.

[Fliger747]

Have about half the overboard discharge pipes done.

[Fliger747]

Starting to add overboard discharge pipes.

[Fliger747]

Today making more discharge pipes (another side to do) and added rows of pad eyes to the flare of the bow, used for attaching work stages for painting etc.

[Fliger747]

Still have to make and attach more discharge pipes on the port side. Added pad eyes at the bow flair. Brass wire, when painted they will be less obvious, as they should be. Anchors are carved from basswood, the reinforcing below them is from folded paper.

[Fliger747]

Dr Phil:

The method of using press apply lettering as masks sounds interesting. There is not a good availability for these here. Do you know what type face USN used during WWII. Each boat will require it's own ship ID and individual number, there are a lot of these!

Cheers! Tom

[DrPR]

Tom,

I don't know what the font was called other than "Navy."

I have attached the blueprints for letters and numbers. The shape should be the same for all US Navy ships in WWII. The size would be scaled for the application.

Phil

[Fliger747]

Thanks Phil!

Interesting that the numbers have rounded corners and the letters do not. The type face may be called "Military Block". Not having much luck finding press apply type lettering so far in suitable type. Going to be a lot of letters and numbers as every boat has the ship number plus boat ID, on both sides.

I noticed that Magoffin had the ships name on the stern in what may have been Helvitica, black lettering, as opposed to the other letters and numbers in White.

[DrPR]

I think black lettering was common for the ships' names on the stern. Hull numbers were white with a black "shadow." All other hull lettering (depth markers, etc.) was just white with no shadows.

For the number of labels you need you might think of trying decals. The catch is that you want white letters and very few printers can print white. A few years ago there was one "home" printer that did print white (silver, gold, and several other special colors), but I don't recall the name right now. I think it used colored wax that was melted and "spit" onto the paper/plastic/whatever. Xerox has some printers that use wax, but they don't print white.

You might contact a custom decal company to see what it would cost to get a full set made.

If you figure out how to do it, let us know!

Phil

[BB62vet]

I think black lettering was common for the ships' names on the stern. Hull numbers were white with a black "shadow." All other hull lettering (depth markers, etc.) was just white with no shadows.
For the number of labels you need you might think of trying decals. The catch is that you want white letters and very few printers can print white. A few years ago there was one "home" printer that did print white (silver, gold, and several other special colors), but I don't recall the name right now. I think it used colored wax that was melted and "spit" onto the paper/plastic/whatever. Xerox has some printers that use wax, but they don't print white.
You might contact a custom decal company to see what it would cost to get a full set made.
If you figure out how to do it, let us know!
Phil

Tom, Phil -
I had my hull numbers/name decals (STODDARD) made for me by Stan Cedarleaf (also a forum member, I think). Here is his contact info:

Cedarleaf Custom Decals
3386 N Windsong Dr. Apt 213
Prescott Valley, AZ 86314-1226
mobile - (520) 831-3390
email - scedarleaf@aol.com

He does a process that gives white/black decals as needed.

There are also a couple other USN drawings that apply to hull nos/names for transports & their small craft:
B.U. #S2804-860342, Rev. G
B.U. #S2804-921592-860342-8603
B.U. #S2804-921791, Rev. C

Tom, I've sent you .pdfs of these drawings via email.
Phil - send me an email and I'll send you copies, as well!

Hope this helps,

Hank



Website info:

[Fliger747]

Thanks for the info Hank! If you have the decals for Stoddard already, even before construction, you are very organized!

[Fliger747]

Most of the wartime photos I see of ship numbers are too poorly resolved to tell if the shading is used. Some photos of destroyers and cruisers with the small numbers appear to be just plain painted. I also see the ships name either in black or white.

I am sure this was very organized at the time, with some ancient re tread WWI 06 sitting in an office with an equally grizzled Chief Bosun as hi "secretary" and a bunch of draftsmen promulgating specifications for each ship class.

It's a learning experience! I did find some UV cured adhesive as used by fly tiers and it appears to be quite useful!

[DrPR]

Tom,

I suspect you are right about the small hull numbers used during WWII. I have a few photos of ships taken close enough to the bow to see that the white hull numbers did not have a black "shadow."

The small white hull number without shadow continued to be used on some ships for some time after the war (through 1948 at least). I have photos of ships during the Korean War (1950 - 53) with the large bow numbers white with the black shadow.

Note: Hank's drawings for the large white letters with black shadows are dated 1949.

I thought i had a picture of the USS Little Rock CL-92 with the large hull numbers dated 1946, but it turns out the date was 1946-49 (NH 94939)!

On some dazzle camouflaged ships there is no hull number on the bow or stern. Some did have the small white hull number on the bow, and I have at least one 1944 photo showing a small black hull number on a light dazzle background.

It looks like the hull name on the stern was also left off on many ships during WWII. If it was there it was either white or black, depending upon the background color - white on dark background, and black on light background.

I do have photos of ship names on the stern that are white over the darker blue-gray hull color used during WWII.

So there doesn't seem to be any Navy-wide standard practice through WWII. By the 1950s the larger white numbers with black shadows and black names on the stern were in common use.

Phil

[Fliger747]

One of the few really glaring frames in the movie "'Away All Boats" is a Fletcher just abaft the starboard stern firing it's 5"38's at an air attack and sporting the huge white, shadowed numbers as used postwar. The wartime photos I can find show the APA's with I believe good sized plain white numbers both bow and stern to identify the ships at a distance to make sure the boats got back to the right ship and keep the invasion fleet organized.

It's been many years since the only Hobby Shop within 400 miles went TU so one has to be inventive in acquiring supplies. I blend my own acrylic paints, brass and piano wire are available at a local ACE hardware, basswood and other items at Michael's, Home "Despot" had the UV adhesive. The Strathmore paper that I like for some structural uses is available at the local art store. It is very archival, models made using it 50 years ago will undoubtedly be good in another 50. I did find some Tamiya style tape at the local Michaels, not cheap stuff!

It's the inventiveness required that is sometimes a frustration, but also the challenges are the gift to the hobby.

[Fliger747]

Slow progress. Two forward stays added to the Main Mast. Three more to go for each side. Need to make some more turnbuckles, shackles and pad eyes.

[Fliger747]

Beginning to work on the aft mast first with standing and running rigging.

[BB62vet]

Tom,
Very nice work, as usual!! Can't wait to see the rigging completed on all these booms!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Well me too! Rigging is a real PITA, especially booms which in a model don't have enough weight to stretch the rigging out. there has been some step forward and a couple of steps backwards.

Cheers! Tom

[BB62vet]

Well me too! Rigging is a real PITA, especially booms which in a model don't have enough weight to stretch the rigging out. there has been some step forward and a couple of steps backwards.

Tom,
A couple of suggestions:
1) Do you have any old multi stranded telephone cable? If so, you could separate & strip the various wires and use those as "rigging" - they might be stiff enough to appear taunt; you could bend half loops and cryco glue the upper ends (start at bottom). Same goes for multi-stranded extension cords (might be a heavier diameter). Then, with a fine pointed brush, paint black.
2) There's a product (E-Z Line) which is a stretchable plastic line the aircraft modelers use - I may have sent you info on the website a couple years ago - comes from the U.K. I used this on NEW JERSEY. It's a bit tedious, esp. with cryo. glue, but would give you a straight, tight line.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Fliger747]

Gentlemen!

Thanks for the suggestions. Hank: I do remember the rigging you'd with "easy line". I'll continue to experiment. For the standing rigging I used .015 piano wire, the smallest I could find.