The Ship Model Forum

since its been 2 months or so since anyone has posted on this incredible model just wondering if you had done anything with her. anyways hope this thread gets revived so to speak. would love to see this ship completed someday. take care.

MichiganBB27 wrote:since its been 2 months or so since anyone has posted on this incredible model just wondering if you had done anything with her. anyways hope this thread gets revived so to speak. would love to see this ship completed someday. take care.

Slowly working on her but most of the money goes to getting the tow hook and trailer ready to transport the model. Also most of the last few weeks worked on the Parchim and Kashin models. I'm aiming to get the Admiral Kuznetsov in the water by the first week in November under RC. Well that's the plan.

i hope your plan goes flawless. have a good one.

For the first time the Admiral Kuznetsov and the trailer come together. The trailer was very easy to move with the model in it's position.

Thank god my roof racks were finally starting to buckle under the weight of the model.

There is one problem that showed its face today and will turn out to be a big problem down the track. While on the trailer and exposed to direct sun and heat there was warpage in the walls of the hanger deck. The main walls are OK because they are wood and coated in resin but the wall which will eventually be shown, made in styrene sheets had warped. When I got home however the warpage had subsided quite a bit but is still there. This got me wondering how the main deck will react because I was planning to make the whole deck in this material. The plastic that warped was 1.5mm and the main deck will be 3 mm thick. I may have to change this to a reinforced fiberglass deck.

Remember it's a large aircraft carrier deck. 1 meter by 4meters.
How many people have had similar problems and how did you solve it?

ozpirate wrote:For the first time the Admiral Kuznetsov and the trailer come together. The trailer was very easy to move with the model in it's position.

Thank god my roof racks were finally starting to buckle under the weight of the model.

There is one problem that showed its face today and will turn out to be a big problem down the track. While on the trailer and exposed to direct sun and heat there was warpage in the walls of the hanger deck. The main walls are OK because they are wood and coated in resin but the wall which will eventually be shown, made in styrene sheets had warped. When I got home however the warpage had subsided quite a bit but is still there. This got me wondering how the main deck will react because I was planning to make the whole deck in this material. The plastic that warped was 1.5mm and the main deck will be 3 mm thick. I may have to change this to a reinforced fiberglass deck.

Remember it's a large aircraft carrier deck. 1 meter by 4meters.
How many people have had similar problems and how did you solve it?

Hi Mick Believe me do not use styrene for a deck surface such as that on your Kuznetzov. It will respond just that same as you have seen on the hanger walls. I�ve done it and I have learned the hard way. For carrier flight decks best rely on timber much less susceptible to temperature changes and the effects of exposure to sunlight.
Dave Wooley

Acrylic or PVC will work just as well with less issues. Sounds like the expansion ratio between materials is your problem.

You could leave the hangar floating with room to move inside, but like Dave says, don't use it for the main deck!

Your best bet would be Fiberglass sheets, if you can find or make them. It will expand and contract the same as the hull.

Thanks for the info Admhawk and Dave. I will try to find out if I can get Acrylic in the size I need. I can work with Acrylic just not sure if the size I need is available. At least the glue I use sticks both Styrene and Acrylic, I think. Will need to test that idea at least.

ozpirate wrote:Thanks for the info Admhawk and Dave. I will try to find out if I can get Acrylic in the size I need. I can work with Acrylic just not sure if the size I need is available. At least the glue I use sticks both Styrene and Acrylic, I think. Will need to test that idea at least.

Hi Mick I have returned to timber as a suitable material for the deck , as acrylic here in the UK is quite expensive .
Dave Wooley

Mick,

Admhawk has a good point. Your model is so large that you must take thermal expansion into consideration. In direct summer sunlight it will absorb nearly 1 kilowatt of solar energy per square meter - that is about the amount of energy a toaster uses. Imagine four toasters runing continuously inside the ship - it is going to get very hot. There are three problems you must deal with.

1. First, the deck itself will expand and contract. Here is a link to a site that lists linear coefficients of thermal expansion for several plastics:

http://www.edl-inc.com/Plastic%20expansion%20rates.htm

If the 4 meter long deck deck is made of acrylic and it heats up 10 degrees Celsius the deck will lengthen 2.7 mm, or about 1/10 inch! The deck could easily heat twice that much on a hot day. Ouch!

(acrylic = 0.000068cm/degree C x 400 cm x 10 degrees C = 0.272 cm)

This is about four times as much expansion as an equivalent length of aluminum.

Glass reinforced with epoxy or polyester will expand much less. If it is the same material as the hull it will expand and contract about the same for a given temperature difference. Wood will expand even less. Use adhesives that can take the heat!

Whatever supports you build for the deck should be of the same material as the deck itself. Short detail parts can be of something else because they won't expand much, but any long major support members should be the same material. If not, they will expand at a different rate and the bonds between materials will break, or the deck will warp.

I speak from experience. I reinforced a 1:96 fiberglass hull with plexiglass pieces, and glued it with epoxy. I set it out in the sun to dry after painting and the plexiglass parts expanded faster than the fiberglass. Fortunately, the epoxy melted and the plexiglass parts just poped up out of the hull. It was easily fixed but I learned the lesson about thermal expansion!

2. The deck will expand/contract more than the hull because a) the deck absorbs more solar energy and b) the hull is water cooled. This will be especially true if the deck is painted a darker color than the hull. If you attach the deck to the hull rigidly something will have to give, and the results will not be nice. You can attach it firmly at one point, but all other points should be fitted with slip joints to allow expansion.

3. You should give some thought to ventilation of the hull to avoid frying the electronics. Electronic devices generate internal heat, and they need to lose this heat. Equipment is typically specified to operate over some ambient temperature range (although some hobby equipment doesn't list this spec). If this is exceeded the solid state components will go into thermal runaway (the hotter it gets the hotter it gets) and melt. A lot of new equipment has thermal shutdown protection, but the model will be left dead in the water if this happens. In any case, during trial runs keep a thermometer in the hull to see how hot it is getting.

For a rule of thumb, if you don't know the thermal specs of the equipment keep the ambient temperature below 45C (113F).

****

Keep us informed of your progress. You are entering territory most modelers never have to deal with.

Thanks DrPR. At least I now know whats ahead of me in problems. Now all I need to is to figure out how to get around it some how.

Solution 1: Make a fiberglass deck. Problem: Might not be able to get one as big as I need or may need to make sections (Might be an idea)

Solution 2: Make a deck out of Acrylic. Problem: As with fiberglass, can I find a big enough piece or maybe sections again. And as stated by DrPR what about expansion. My ship in Australian conditions would have to be able to handle temps winter from 18C-25C and summer 25C-38+C and in direct sunlight.

Solution 3: Make the deck out of Wood (Marine Ply - I guess) then coat with fiberglass to seal. Maybe I should give it more thought for now. The wood idea is practical, I just hate the idea of a wooden deck. In past I have had problems but I have come quite a way with tech since my last attempt with at a wooden deck. Might go for a walk later today and find out a little about marine ply from my local hardware store.



Also about heating problems. If the ship becomes to hot I can always open the hanger doors and put a fan to circulate cool air. Guess that's one good thing about a aircraft carrier.

I like your model and transport and have a question. How are you going to strap the model to the trailer and also how will you protect it from the wind when driving?Greg

G'day Mick, I'd go with a marine ply deck, its a simple solution a coat of resin and some support structure out of 9mm square oak ( available in 2.4m lengths from Bunnings, they also do marine ply), and you have a flight deck.. I would do it in section's ( see Boatmans CVN-68 Nimitz on WMU for ideas) makes it simpler for access 2 internals.

Cheers Bruce.........C U in 5 weeks for the Regatta!!!

P.s how is the Kashin coming!!

Greg W wrote:I like your model and transport and have a question. How are you going to strap the model to the trailer and also how will you protect it from the wind when driving?Greg

There is still plenty of work on the trailer to come. I plan some sort of flat door over the deck and tie this down for now. Also plan to enclose the model somehow but this is down the track. I'm even thinking of a on board crane to lift on and of the trailer. Fanciful ideas but hope something comes of it down the track.

HvyCgn9 wrote:G'day Mick, I'd go with a marine ply deck, its a simple solution a coat of resin and some support structure out of 9mm square oak ( available in 2.4m lengths from Bunnings, they also do marine ply), and you have a flight deck.. I would do it in section's ( see Boatmans CVN-68 Nimitz on WMU for ideas) makes it simpler for access 2 internals.
Cheers Bruce.........C U in 5 weeks for the Regatta!!!
P.s how is the Kashin coming!!

Today I had a walk to my local hardware store and inquired about marine ply for the deck. Bloody expensive stuff. Still doing research about the deck and what and how its going on board my model.
Kashin is on hold for now.

Hi Mick, you have plenty of hull space available for fittings. Perhaps you should consider a cooling plant of some sort? At the very least you could arrange some 12v fans to circulate cooler air through the hull. If you were very ambitious you might be able convert a little 12v fridge into a cooling system. And it would have the added advantage of keeping your drinks cool!

It's not really a serious suggestion but I reckon someone on here will have tried something like this.

NorthSea wrote:Hi Mick, you have plenty of hull space available for fittings. Perhaps you should consider a cooling plant of some sort? At the very least you could arrange some 12v fans to circulate cooler air through the hull. If you were very ambitious you might be able convert a little 12v fridge into a cooling system. And it would have the added advantage of keeping your drinks cool!
It's not really a serious suggestion but I reckon someone on here will have tried something like this.

Good one mate but somehow I don't think I will go that way. Anyhow my local water is about 100meters from the bar. Our lake is on the property of the Hubertus Country club where we have a full bar, restaurant, poker machines and other betting facilities, there is also a gun club. I will mention this idea to my fellow modelers. They will get a kick out of that idea.

ozpirate wrote:Good one mate but somehow I don't think I will go that way. Anyhow my local water is about 100meters from the bar. Our lake is on the property of the Hubertus Country club where we have a full bar, restaurant, poker machines and other betting facilities, there is also a gun club. I will mention this idea to my fellow modelers. They will get a kick out of that idea.

Hi Mick, perhaps you could arrange for the aircraft elevators to deliver cans of (Russian) beer?

Greetings! I from Russia. The good ship! I want to construct "Kuznetsov" too! 1/72 - good scale! I have some photos and schemes. I want to share. For example, flydecktractor: http://www.radikal.ru/users/shtusha-prorock/kuznetsov
I have still approximately 500 photos, books, drawings and other schemes, and also video. If still it is interesting to you, I can share.

shtusha wrote:Greetings! I from Russia. The good ship! I want to construct "Kuznetsov" too! 1/72 - good scale! I have some photos and schemes. I want to share. For example, flydecktractor: http://www.radikal.ru/users/shtusha-prorock/kuznetsov
I have still approximately 500 photos, books, drawings and other schemes, and also video. If still it is interesting to you, I can share.

Yes very interested. I have also a good collection. Private message me and I will be glad to post you a dvd full of images. Also I have model ship drawings for other Modern Russian ships.
All prices in Australian Dollars
mick.elst@gmail.com
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVTU ... lfYK&hl=en
Mick
Sydney Australia

G'day Mick,
Happy New Year Mate!!
How goes your shipyard?? Any construction progress on the Admiral or the Kashin??

Cheers Bruce

One thing is really good for Mick, if he ever has a flood like they have in Queensland, he can at least sit in his Kuznetsov and stay dry . Hope to see some progress soon!