Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

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Atma
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

Cliffy B wrote:I think you're looking at a hose reel under the 5"/38. I have a book on BB-59 and in every photo of that area, regardless of the year, the only there is a hose reel on the O-1 deck. Not saying BB-60 could of have something unique but I kind of doubt it. Do you have a higher resolution version of the photo?

After looking through the book, could the mainmast radar on Richelieu be a USN SR-a air search set? It's on a bad angle in the photo but it looks like that could be the one.
Yes, let me give you a link to that picture, and Im sure is a dome but not sure what kind of, anyway take a look and tell me your opinion.
Link:http://navsource.org/archives/01/060/016043a.jpg
And USS Alabama during mid 1980 cleaning, the dome is clear visible here:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016045.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016049.jpg
Thanks again for your time :)
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Cliffy B
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Cliffy B »

What the... :twitch: You got me man. In the overhead shot it looks like there is a position for one 20mm gun there, complete with splinter shield and two ready service ammo lockers. As far as that dome is concerned though...anyone? I'm very intrigued and confused at the moment :big_grin:

Edit: From looking through her photos on NavSource, that is an SU in a radome on her foremast. It seems she got that and the mystery radome during her early 1945 Puget Sound refit. I cant find the little mystery radar in any earlier photos, at least on NavSource. Also, she has two of the mystery sets, same location, port and starboard. Could it have been some early ECM set? Maybe RDF?

Overhead showing both mystery domes, dated 1945. It's no earlier than February or March though.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/060/016016c.jpg
Last edited by Cliffy B on Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

Those domes seems to be experimental, well my opinion, cause they are not present on USS Indiana for example, and in limited numbers on the base of the forward mast of USS Massachusetts, as for the nature of those domes, for me is still unknow.
Richelieu's pictures of 1944 or 1943 got no dome on the connig tower, and in the USN Battleships those domes appear only late 1945/early 1946.

Edit: USS Massachusetts 1946, notice different place on the mast than USS Alabama and noone on the deck.Link:http://navsource.org/archives/01/059/015970.jpg
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Caravellarella »

Felix C wrote:This is from the IPMSusa2.org review

"The release of this kit lit up the discussion boards in France. Here is a summary of the faults the Richelieu experts in France found:

The hull
Generally speaking, the hull is good; the dimensions are accurate to within 0.5mm. The bow is a little too vertical, making the curve at the bottom of the bow a little too high (about 1.5mm maximum). From the junction of the stern with the hole in the axis of the rudder and a distance of 20mm to the waterline, the shape of the hull is a little too strong (1mm maximum). The sternpost should be modified to about 0.8mm on the upper part.
The rudder, propellers, propeller shafts are wrong and should be replaced. It is missing the false keel.
The bilge keel can be replaced, but is far from being a priority.
The anchors and their hawses are false and really deserve to be replaced.
The porthole location on both sides of the hull are identical, they should be different.
The foc'sle is incorrect.
The superstructure
Generally speaking, the details are beautiful and dimensions are quite accurate, forms are not strictly accurate. The first deck, bunkers and the main tower are striking examples.
The funnel is a good shape, although the rear is straight instead of being curved. But it lacks 1.5mm in length.
The bridges are more or less accurate.
Equipment
The 40mm Bofors are very ugly need to be replaced. The associated gun directors are missing.
The 20mm Oerlikons are even uglier and must be replaced.
The 100mm are nice looking but wrong in dimension; plus the aft end of the shield is wrong. The underside of the 100mm platforms should be open on the sides.
The 152mm turrets are mostly correct in shape and dimension and can be used without problem. The barrels are wrong and must be replaced. The range finder of the central 152 turret should be the same as that of the other 152 mm turrets.
The 380mm turret is too small. The blast bags, their barrels and their barbettes are wrong and have to be replaced. The shape of the roof of turret 2 isn't good.
The gun directors of 380mm and 152mm are inaccurate.
Other elements
The boats are pretty, but wrong.
The rafts, projectors, ammunition boxes, paravanes, smoke screen generators are ugly and wrong.
Bofors mounts and Oerlikons bulwark' shields, cradles and cranes can be improved even perhaps replaced.
The searchlights are wrong.
The camouflage is at best representational. It wore such a camouflage from September 1943 (date of the end of its modernization at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in NY) to April 10 1944.
I will address these perceived shortcomings in my review of the kit. I do not pretend to be more knowledgeable, but can look at it with an impassionate eye.
Dear Boys and Girls, please can any of you direct me to a fully documented/illustrated build/review showing the actual corrections required for the Trumpeter 1/350 Richelieu kit? I've got all the references needed but I'd like to see how others have done the work required. I can only find 2 finished builds (by Peter Van Buren & Louis Carabott) and 1 build in progress (LE BOSCO) here......

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75145&hilit=richelieu

Please, can any one also account for Trumpeter's errors given the comparative accuracy of their 1/700 kit? I know of the available photo-etched update sets for the kit from L'Arsenal & Flyhawk, but I can't find any evidence of aftermarket conversion/correction parts for the 380mm and 152mm gun turrets and their directors......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'Oréal keeps telling me I'm worth it!

Maybe it's Maybelline..............
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Caravellarella
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Caravellarella »

Caravellarella wrote:
Dear Boys and Girls, please can any of you direct me to a fully documented/illustrated build/review showing the actual corrections required for the Trumpeter 1/350 Richelieu kit? I've got all the references needed but I'd like to see how others have done the work required. I can only find 2 finished builds (by Peter Van Buren & Louis Carabott) and 1 build in progress (LE BOSCO) here......

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75145&hilit=richelieu

Please, can any one also account for Trumpeter's errors given the comparative accuracy of their 1/700 kit? I know of the available photo-etched update sets for the kit from L'Arsenal & Flyhawk, but I can't find any evidence of aftermarket conversion/correction parts for the 380mm and 152mm gun turrets and their directors......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Obviously not......
Because L'Oréal keeps telling me I'm worth it!

Maybe it's Maybelline..............
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Atma
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

All I can say about the 1/700 Richelieu from Trumpeter is a nice out of the box build if you like and is way better than the 1/350 equivalent.
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Felix C »

Caravellarella wrote:
Caravellarella wrote:
Dear Boys and Girls, please can any of you direct me to a fully documented/illustrated build/review showing the actual corrections required for the Trumpeter 1/350 Richelieu kit? I've got all the references needed but I'd like to see how others have done the work required. I can only find 2 finished builds (by Peter Van Buren & Louis Carabott) and 1 build in progress (LE BOSCO) here......

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75145&hilit=richelieu

Please, can any one also account for Trumpeter's errors given the comparative accuracy of their 1/700 kit? I know of the available photo-etched update sets for the kit from L'Arsenal & Flyhawk, but I can't find any evidence of aftermarket conversion/correction parts for the 380mm and 152mm gun turrets and their directors......

Terry (Caravellarella)
Obviously not......
Try here http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15353
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Caravellarella »

Because L'Oréal keeps telling me I'm worth it!

Maybe it's Maybelline..............
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Atma
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

I think is the same.
Guest

Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Guest »

Hello everybody! Could anyone help me? I'm looking for paint scheme of Richelieu in 1940...
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by sirmaumau »

hey guest?according to Dumas'work that seems to be light grey.But I was distorted by Richelieu's color photos in New york,and mistaken it as "1/3white+2/3blue".
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by GTDEATH13 »

Does anyone know when the Richelieu changed camouflage pattern from MS32 to the one the ship had when it arrived at Toulon postwar? I am reffering to the pattern with the dark grey mid hull section.

I have found a photo (copyrighted) that shows the ship in March 1945 with the new camouflage.

Furthermore, does anyone have the pattern and colourns of the new camouflage?

I want to know if the ship participated in any Pacific / Indian ocean operation with this camouflage pattern.
NIKOS (NICK)
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

Richelieu was at Gribraltar in January of 1945 for a refit wich I dont know what kind of refit was it. Maybe a new camouflage pattern ? Anyway, she arrived back at Trincomalee on 20 March 1945 where she rejoined the Eastern Fleet till the end of the war against Japan, with Task Force 63 of the British East Indies Fleet in shore bombardments of Sabang in April and of the Nicobar Islands in late April to early May.
Richelieu refitted at Durban in from 18 July to 10 August 1945. Maybe that time she got the all gray paint scheme.
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by GTDEATH13 »

According to the book by J.Jordan and R.Dumas "French Battleships 1922-1956" (isbn 9781848320345) Richelieu underwent repairs at Casablanca in October 1944, when she received a new Admiralty paint scheme and the new suite of radars.

So I guess I am looking for the colors of the Admiralty paint scheme... :thumbs_up_1:
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

GTDEATH13 wrote:According to the book by J.Jordan and R.Dumas "French Battleships 1922-1956" (isbn 9781848320345) Richelieu underwent repairs at Casablanca in October 1944, when she received a new Admiralty paint scheme and the new suite of radars.

So I guess I am looking for the colors of the Admiralty paint scheme... :thumbs_up_1:
Thanks for sharing that !
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

HP Models list as upcoming release the Gascogne in 1/700 :thumbs_up_1:
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

Quick question, I was under the impression that there was a replacement hull for Trumpeter's Jean Bart in 1/700 in resin(hull only), I thought it was from Imperial Hobby Productions(?), but it seems Im unable to find any information on that anywhere. Anyone can help me ?
Thanks in advnace.
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Mike@IHP »

Atma wrote:Quick question, I was under the impression that there was a replacement hull for Trumpeter's Jean Bart in 1/700 in resin(hull only), I thought it was from Imperial Hobby Productions(?), but it seems Im unable to find any information on that anywhere. Anyone can help me ?
Thanks in advnace.
$20.00 plus shipping direct from IHP. Hull is designed to use the Trumpeter superstructure and guns. PM me to order.

Mike Bartel
IHP
http://ihphobby.tripod.com
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by tko24 »

"$20.00 plus shipping direct from IHP. Hull is designed to use the Trumpeter superstructure and guns. PM me to order."

I can verify it's a nice hull, and a good deal for $20.00. :thumbs_up_1:
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Re: Calling all MN Richelieu & Jean Bart fans

Post by Atma »

Some nice Richelieu pictures:

1)Notice the anchor chains, picture dated 1943:
Image
2)On trials 1939:
Image


3)Stern view again 1951, but notice the removal of the 20 mm Oerlikons from the central 15,5 cm turret, and that the central 15,5 cm turret now has the same pattern of rangefinder as the two 1 5,5 cm wings turrets.
Image

4)Same date as above 1951 and notice changes on the era of the 15,5 cm and the secondary rangefinder(removal of 20mm Oerlikons) and the plethora of radio and communications antennas:
Image

5)Picture dated 1960:
Image

6)Finnaly a picture dated 1943 before the trip in New York USA for her refit:
Image










One more dated 1945 or 1946:
Image
Compare it with the previous two pictures of stern view and notice the significant changes from 1951:Removal of Oerlikons and same rangefinder for the central turret of 15,5 cm as the wings turrets.
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