The Ship Model Forum

Hi Andrew can�t wait to see you get underway with your Kirov projects. No doubt you will find much as I have done, many anomalies and have more than your fair share of "head scratching" times ahead. But stick with the program as the rewards will far outweigh the problems encountered. Here is the photo of the old Gorshkov with Bazalt cradle in place.

Dave Wooley

Hello Dave,

That's a lot of stuff to catch up with. I'm a bit surprised that you hadn't finished the model in the last couple of months. I remember something like you saying August was a deadline. Anyway better to take your time and keep up with the high quality of your model. And what quality that is...!!! Amazing job on that crew and all those fittings! Very inspiring!

Neptune wrote:Hello Dave,

That's a lot of stuff to catch up with. I'm a bit surprised that you hadn't finished the model in the last couple of months. I remember something like you saying August was a deadline. Anyway better to take your time and keep up with the high quality of your model. And what quality that is...!!! Amazing job on that crew and all those fittings! Very inspiring!

Hi Roel good to hear from you and good to see you back on the board. Yep Like any ship yard there is delays, contractual difficulties, re-scheduling of programs , upgrades cost overruns , and that's only the model Oh and I've spent some diversionary time on the next project.
Dave Wooley not long now

hello dave,fine job on the missle launchers.feb you say ,more than likely about that time for me to,but there always seems that some detail that was forgot rears its head and more than likely will involve a fair amount of fiddling around to make it fit :thumbs_up_1:p.s the pics of graf spree and derffinger have me thinking

I have caught up on reading all the latest posts on your build and it is coming along very nice. The details are fantastic. It keeps setting a bar for me to reach with my ship. Can't wait to see it completed.

johnny canuck wrote:I have caught up on reading all the latest posts on your build and it is coming along very nice. The details are fantastic. It keeps setting a bar for me to reach with my ship. Can't wait to see it completed.

Hi James good to hear from you and thanks for the kind comments. It�s surprising how many small fittings there are that individually are insignificant that it would hard to point them out, yet collectively these are the parts that bring the model together. In many respects it's easier working in 1:144 than 1:72 at least some fittings are truly invisible at 1:144.
Dave Wooley

Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the proverbial modeling tunnel .I needed to sort out the RAS hoist. It�s only now that I have acquired a number of good close in shots of the power unit which was the stumbling block . Also in an earlier post I was asked how I worked out the size and shape of the parts ready for assembly well I�ll do my best to explain how this is done. . But first the RAS equipment on Kiev. For some time I�d been examining the photos in Barry Deans book Kiev and Kuznetzov but many of these pictures are fly bys and are inherently difficult to interpret with confidence. Traveling Man Steve provided a wealth of close in photos of the RAS hoist on the Minsk but this was fitted much later and was a very different fitting to that used in the 1980s aboard Kiev. I�ll break this mini build into two parts as there is the hoists and the nozzles which the fuel hoses attach to which are fitted separately to the side of the superstructure and can be seen in this picture .

The best picture available up until a few months ago shows the hoist from some distance with no real defining detail. The hoist is to the right of the picture {there are in fact two hoists on the starboard side} .Non the less this was a useful picture as it gave some good angles of perspective, essential for working out size and scale .

Eventually I was sent a picture of power unit of the RAS hoist on one of the Slava class missile cruisers which is identical to that on Kiev , alas not the lift which is completely different .
First job for me was to draw up a number of sketches with various measurements. These are not drawings as such and I have no access to CAD so making use of various photos I was able to judge the overall height and from this work in the remainder of the parts and the relative scale of each part and what would be required in materials

An illustration of the materials that would be required to given the relative size and scale in which to construct each of the parts required and generate a coherent pattern of assembly .In other words to make the fitting in 1:144.

Next time how I generate each individual part in the right order ready for assembly! Then moving on to the construction bearing in mind there are parts that are left loose for a purpose .
Dave Wooley more to come and Happy Christmas to you all and thank you for looking in over the past 12 months on this rather extended build.

Judging the size and scale of parts of a fitting in the absence of accurate drawings is a mixture of being aware of perspective, having pair of dividers and a little slice of experience and of course the scale . With the various sketches I was able make each individual part , I hasten to add there is a element of , �If it doesn�t look right is aint right� sort of approach . There is no hard and fast scientific or IT formula to dealing with perspective ,a good eye is one of the best tools in the chest . Much of what you see on Kiev has been drawn , redrawn , made ,scraped and re-made until it looks proportionally similar to the picture. With out a picture or pictures the project would be still born .
Here are most of the parts that will make up the RAS hoists
From the top is the parts that make up the lift .I estimated that in it�s basic form there would be no more than four parts , upper and lower made from 1mm styrene with two round holes at one end . The purpose for this is to allow for free movement and painting of the round vertical pole section in which the lift moves up and down, later the lift be re-fitted and fixed in one position . Then there are the sides of the lift . The height or depth is judged from the photo and sketched out . There is nothing precise about this technique it�s an old method but it does produce results. The height of the hoist is also judged by perspective with the help of dividers . For example I know the exact position of the windows on the model .I judged that height of the hoist is just above the bottom of the window .Using that simple expedient I have my height. As for diameter , I am aware that this compares with the width of the ladders to the left of the hoist and the width of the windows above , yes this is reliance on perspective but it�s the only markers I have to make the sketches and drawings . Constructing the power drive is relative to the rest of the fitting , which is now quite straight forward . In the photo of these parts the 3mm od styrene tube serves well for the larger diameter centre section of the power drive unit . But I was not aware that inside this is a winding drum for cables . Here a slightly smaller diameter styrene tube fits into larger diameter tube and becomes the winding drum. The small square section with a circular hole in the centre seats on top of the large centre drum and supports the pole for the lift .This will be explained later . The final piece of this asymmetrical jigsaw is the base in which the whole unit sits on . In actual terms this final arrangement is slightly different but the end result looks the same when the hoist is completed.

Dave Wooley next assembling the parts

That�s real scratch building!

Merry Christmas Dave!

109 wrote:That�s real scratch building!

Merry Christmas Dave!

Thank you 109 and all to very best to you .
Dave Wooley

Assembly of the lift is quite straight forward first the two sides to the upper section .

The upper and lower section are then added to the vertical pole, ready to be joined in situ .

Each of the lifts are made up and fitted but NOT fixed.

Two strips are cut that will be fixed to the open end of the lift . The L piece at the top is a spacer that will be removed later This will determine the exact distance from the side of the superstructure.

Small styrene extensions are fitted to the corner of the seating for the vertical section .

All the parts thus far

Assembly of the power drive unit

The power drive unit is fitted to its base and four seating legs added

The pole section is seated on top of the drive unit .

At the top of the pole section will be fitted a support that will replace the spacer . This support is splayed out in two directions and will fix the hoist securely to the superstructure.

The hoist ready for final assembly .

The completed hoist . The top support is not fixed as this will need to be removed along with the lift to allow for painting.

Dave Wooley next the adjustable hose nozzles and the handling equipment and platforms.

I have mentioned often during this build that it�s often the accumulation of the small �bits� that will make or break the model . With the RAS hoist prepared the next part of this mini build is the adjustable nozzles for the RAS hoses .
There are two types of fittings like this aboard Kiev ,

If it wasn�t complicated enough there is a third set of nozzles , using a different methods to combine two nozzles into a single adjustable arm.

For the time being I�ll concentrate on the single nozzle type . Once again there are no �proper drawings� available so as with the RAS lift a drawing or should it be a rough series of sketches was required .
.
Dave Wooley more to come

Nice work Dave. Glad to see that your Christmas has been well spent.

Happy new year. May it bring lots of fine details to your build.

Looks great ! It's all in the details .

Hi Dave,

I feel a little lucky to be able to follow your Kiev build as I get ready for the detail on the Varyag.

I will be building a few of these RAS high points:



Andrew

Dave Wooley wrote:I have mentioned often during this build that it�s often the accumulation of the small �bits� that will make or break the model . With the RAS hoist prepared the next part of this mini build is the adjustable nozzles for the RAS hoses .

Dave Wooley more to come

Just for info,

In the NATO world we call these NATO standard couplings or "Bell housings". They are designed to accept a "fuel probe" that was passed to the receiving ship on a "high line". You can see the "pelican" hook just above the bell housing that was used to secure the high line. The supplying ship would control the tension on the high line. It looks like the Soviets had a number of different sizes of probes and fittings.

I am not absolutely sure, but I do not think that the large vertical hoist type device was used for fueling. I think it was used for heavy stores resupply ("Heavy Jackstay" in NATO parlance) including ammunition and potentially missiles. (But I could be absolutely wrong as well )

Andrew

Ticonderoga wrote:

Dave Wooley wrote:I have mentioned often during this build that it�s often the accumulation of the small �bits� that will make or break the model . With the RAS hoist prepared the next part of this mini build is the adjustable nozzles for the RAS hoses .

Dave Wooley more to come

Just for info,

In the NATO world we call these NATO standard couplings or "Bell housings". They are designed to accept a "fuel probe" that was passed to the receiving ship on a "high line". You can see the "pelican" hook just above the bell housing that was used to secure the high line. The supplying ship would control the tension on the high line. It looks like the Soviets had a number of different sizes of probes and fittings.

I am not absolutely sure, but I do not think that the large vertical hoist type device was used for fueling. I think it was used for heavy stores resupply ("Heavy Jackstay" in NATO parlance) including ammunition and potentially missiles. (But I could be absolutely wrong as well )

Andrew

Hi Andrew good to hear from you . I've been away visiting family and have just retuned to pick up your reply . Yes you are right having looked at various photos I see the Soviet navy used a similar method for refueling at sea to that on RN ships . For Replenishment At Sea The Hoist or heavy jackstay as you say would be used for stores and not refueling . On Kiev I have seen only one type of probe receiver . Looking at the various fittings on the Udaloy�s and other larger Soviet warships It would appear that the probe and receiver are standard but the RAS heavy jackstay fitting {hoist } varies as this photo aboard an Udaloy would indicate .
Dave Wooley

The first challenge was to reproduce the bell shape at the end of the receiver . All that was required here was to take a small round file and gently apply pressure around the edge of the opening of the aluminum tube and there you have it .


All the fittings that will make up the jack stay strong point and receiver including the �U� shaped frame that connects the receiver to the strong point.

The strong point onto which the receiver [ nozzle } is secured .

Here the bell part of the receiver is inserted into the larger diameter tube . The end is blanked off with a circular section of styrene . The out let end of the receiver is made up from a strip of solid styrene rod ,shaped, cut back slightly with a smaller circular styrene tube added at right angles to form the outlet .


The strong point, receiver frame and receiver nozzle ready to be married together.

Part of the connecting frame for the receiver , made from strip litho fitted to the lower part of the strong point.

All the parts described are now joined as one .


Dave Wooley more to come

hello dave that is scratch building enginering at it's best,it never ceases to amaze me how you manage to build these things from a picture,well done all the best in the new year

Hi Russ Thank you and all the very best to you for the New Year . making the duel receivers is going to be some thing of a challenge but fun to do .
Dave Wooley