Calling all IJN Sub-Chaser fans

[Dan K]

Yes, centered on the mast. These are maneuvering/signal lights like on the larger ships, just scaled down a little.

[MatthewB]

Did these ships have names, or just numbers?

Because in reading the translated Japanese accounts of the War, I am coming across a lot of weird references to things like:

56th Submarine Chaser Squadron (No.8 Tama Maru, No.3 Toshi Maru)

or

56th Submarine Chaser Squadron (No.5 Kotobuki Maru)

What's up with these?

I'm not seeing anything in Combined Fleet that indicates what these ships were/are.

MB

[berend]

They are auxiliaries, converted and used for various roles like picket boats, patrol boats, minesweepers and subchasers.

Berend

[MatthewB]

Any idea on where to find images of them?

Because they technically belong here as well.

And I just got a load of images for the dedicated Sub-Chasers (No.1, No.4, No.13, No.28, and No.251 - classes), and a few of the "Auxiliaries," but the photos I got are of the converted Destroyers (Including the Wickes-class DD that was captured) that were used as Sub-Chasers or Escorts.

Or should I create another thread for the Escorts and Auxiliaries?

MB

[Dan K]

If already converted, then keep them here, IMHO.

[MatthewB]

If already converted, then keep them here, IMHO.

OK.... I found a couple of old Maru-specials and Gakkens that dealt with Sub-Chasers on eBay.

I am scanning a few of the photos to post in here.

MB

[MatthewB]

Updated list of Kits at the beginning to include Auxiliary Sub-Chasers.

MB

[redoctober27]

With regard to the No.51 Sub-Chaser.

It looks like at the very least Sub-Chaser No.58 was back to the "Improved No.13" appearance:

Did CH-58 not have a degussing cable and have her 58 hull number on her side ???? At this late in the war since she was launched in 1943??

[Dan K]

She's still fitting out, December, 1943

[redoctober27]

Ah!! So no degussing coil yet installed.. Got it!

[MatthewB]

With regard to the No.51 Sub-Chaser.

It looks like at the very least Sub-Chaser No.58 was back to the "Improved No.13" appearance:

Did CH-58 not have a degussing cable and have her 58 hull number on her side ???? At this late in the war since she was launched in 1943??

Don't forget that the No.51 Sub-Chasers (No.51, No.52, & No.53) were re-classed as "No.251, No.252, and No.253" in 1943, when the No.28 class Sub-Chaser began to reach the 50s in number.

So the No.51, No.52, and No.53 were a different class from the No.51 from the Pre-War Sub-Chasers (The IJN just seems to be all kinda screwed up at times). They were basically the Model for the No.4 Sub-Chasers from what i have been able to work out from the Maru-Special I have on them.


But....

Does this No.58 Sub-Chaser look to have a Boot-Topping above the Anti-Fouling Paint on the lower hull?


MB

[MatthewB]

A couple of points about the No.51/No.251, No.52/252, and No.53, 253 Sub-Chasers.

After getting the kits for these from Five Star Models, it appears that they are very small ships, roughly � to ? the size of the No.4 or No.13 class (roughly � the No.4-class, and ? the No.13-class). They are roughly the same size as the No.1-class Sub-Chaser.

And for the No.13 and No.28 classes, it looks like there were three or four different patterns for the degaussing cable.

MB

[ijnfleetadmiral]

I might be able to clear something up: the 'No. 51'-class vessels are auxiliary subchasers, hence why they look different. The main subchasers for the IJN were:

CH-1-class (CH-1, CH-2, & CH-3 subclass)
CH-4-class (CH-4 through CH-12)
CH-13-class (CH-13 through CH-27)
CH-28-class (CH-28 through CH-58; CH-60, CH-61, & CH-63 form a subclass of this design, as they had slightly greater displacement)

[MatthewB]

In looking at the No.51/251-class (or Sub-class) of Auxiliary Sub-Chasers, I have discovered an error in the Five Star Model for this ship. Or at least an error, or difference, if using this model to build No.53 Auxiliary Sub-Chaser.

The Five Star Model has the structure only of Sub-Chaser No.51 & No.52

On Sub-Chaser No.51 and No.52 the Superstructure, and deck-houses were arranged (from bow to stern):


��Anchor-chains and windlass (or whatever that thing the chains go around is called)
� Type 91 "HI" 40mm AA gun
� Bridge
� Foremast
� Deckhouse (I do not yet know its function - If I could read Kanji better I could figure it out. I'll work that out over the next week).
� Funnel
� Ship's Boat
� Depth Charge Racks and Throwers (K-guns, fore and aft of 2 racks)
� Later shots show a Type 93 Twin-13.5mm AA gun on the stern

But on the Sub-Chaser No.53, the deck arrangement was/is:


� Anchor chains and windlass
� Type 9 "HI" 40mm AA gun
� Bridge
��Foremast
��Funnel
��Deckhouse
� Ship's Boat.
� Depth Charge Racks and Throwers (K-guns, fore and aft of 2 racks)
� Later Type 93 Twin-13.5mm AA Gun on the stern.

So it will require filling the hole for the Funnel, and making a new one just aft of the Mast to turn a No.51 into a No.53. The Funnel looks to be very close to the Mast in the photos of 53.

And, looking at the line drawing, it seems that Sub-Chaser No.53 is steam-powered, while the others are Diesel. The Stack is trunked from what looks like a boiler-room directly below the mast, and one that would be directly below the Aft Deckhouse on Sub-Chasers No.51 & No.52. Yes, I can read that much of the Japanese. No.53 DID have a Steam-Turbine, rather than the Diesels of the other Sub-Chasers. I.e. ?? - ?????x? - Omo-ki - Kan-Taabin x 2 .... or "Primary Machinery - Warship Turbine x 2.

So in changing the model to portray Sub-Chaser No.53 (which seems to be called a 1651-class in the Maru Special would require some substantial modification to the stack in comparison to No.51 and No.52's Stack/Funnel.

Also, it looks like all three ships got some sort of storage boxes on the deck P/S of the After Deckhouse and Funnels, in the same location in all three ships. These look identical to those seen on the No.4-class Sub-Chaser that are P/S of the Funnel and Deckhouse.

I thought it might be a good idea to detail these differences, as seen in Maru Special from 1981, vol. 3, No.39

MB

[MatthewB]

And as usual, Five Star Models has unnamed parts on their Photo Etch frets for their No.4 and No.51 Sub-Chasers.

The Photo is from the No.51 Sub-Chaser model, and the part number (#31) has a rectangle drawn around it to point it out.

I have searched through the Maru Special that I mentioned in the last post, but have not found anything like this part, which seems to be a open-framed box, yet with one side having these diagonals sticking out.

If anyone can provide any clue as to what this thing might be, please, I would be very thankful.


MB

[ch hoeltge]

I want to build CH-50 from June 44 and so I have to left of from the Rainbow kit the radar and the 25mm plattforms.
And then I will build it similar like CH-51 shown here.
Is this right?

Greetings Christian

[MatthewB]

I want to build CH-50 from June 44 and so I have to left of from the Rainbow kit the radar and the 25mm plattforms.
And then I will build it similar like CH-51 shown here.
Is this right?

Greetings Christian

From what I can tell, CH-50 in June of 1944 would have the Radar and 25mm platforms.

It had a platform built on the deckhouse amidships that had two single 25mm guns, and a raised platform in front of the bridge that held a single or double Type 96 25mm AA gun.

And on the stern of the ship would be a double Type 93 13mm AA gun. It looks like these could have been swapped with Type 96 guns on some of the ships.

CH-50 was a No.28-class Sub-Chaser.

MB

[ch hoeltge]

Thanks for your input.
The project is a little dead. For my next project I will need an escort.

Greetings Christian

[berend]

Some more subchaser models are being released by FiveStar Model in 1/700 scale:

IJN No. 3 class subchaser
IJN No. 53 class subchaser
IJN No. 103 class auxiliary subchaser

Regards,

Berend

[MatthewB]

I was just about to post photos of these:


Type 53 Sub-Chaser


Five-Star already makes the Type 51 Sub-Chaser, which encompassed SCs 51, 52, 53, and 54.

But SC 53 had a Steam Turbine Engine, rather than the Diesels of the Type 51-class (51, 52, & 54)

Type 3 Sub-Chaser:


Likewise, the Type 3 Sub-Chaser differed from SC 1 & 2 by having a pole-mast, rather than the Tripod Masts of SC 3

Auxiliary Type 103 Sub-Chaser


I cannot find any information about SC 103. SC 102 was the Captured USS Stewart (DD-224), a Clemson-class 4-stacker. It was technically known as PB-102, but was used as a Sub-Chaser.

This looks to be a Diesel, but I see no stack, regardless of what is powering her. But I cannot find her in any of my Maru Specials dealing with Small Ships, Sub-Chasers, or Auxiliary Patrol Boats.

MB