Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:39 am
LOL
Alka-seltzer depth charge? Sounds damn funny!
Alka-seltzer depth charge? Sounds damn funny!
The Ship Model Forum
The Ship Modelers Source
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/
realistic KABOOMS!
Page 2 of 3
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:41 am
might work tho... i'd break them off so there isn't much, only fizzes some.... encase it in something that looked like a real depth charge... so it took a second for the water to hit it, that way it didn't fizz right when it hit the water. being a small piece...should only fizz for a second.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:44 am
Yes Kenny, I do need help!
I try to explain what I need, so you can assume if you can help me.
My SMS Derfflinger will have four twin-turrets like usual two astern and two on the foredeck. I want them to turn and fire in groups fore and aft.
But I also want them to fire half-salvos like they did in real battle. That means that e.g. the left barrels of Turret (A)nton and (B)erta elevate approx. 16� fire simutanously and go down. Then the right barrels come up and fire. Understood? And of course the same with (C)�sar and (D)ora Turrets.
If it is easier, than you can let both groups fire together, as you need less equipment? At least you need two different systems for each side of the turrets. With CO2 it should be possible to use flexible tubes, so you don't have to build everything under the turrets?
I have so many questions, I hope you understand, what I intend to do...
I try to explain what I need, so you can assume if you can help me.
My SMS Derfflinger will have four twin-turrets like usual two astern and two on the foredeck. I want them to turn and fire in groups fore and aft.
But I also want them to fire half-salvos like they did in real battle. That means that e.g. the left barrels of Turret (A)nton and (B)erta elevate approx. 16� fire simutanously and go down. Then the right barrels come up and fire. Understood? And of course the same with (C)�sar and (D)ora Turrets.
If it is easier, than you can let both groups fire together, as you need less equipment? At least you need two different systems for each side of the turrets. With CO2 it should be possible to use flexible tubes, so you don't have to build everything under the turrets?
I have so many questions, I hope you understand, what I intend to do...
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:12 am
Another thing. Could you tell me how you realize that thick smoke from the stacks? (Even if it's only short in time)
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:19 am
I am going to install a model railroad smoke generator into my snowberry's stack. It can last for a few hours ;o)Torpedo wrote:Another thing. Could you tell me how you realize that thick smoke from the stacks? (Even if it's only short in time)
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:45 am
Petros that's not IT!
They have probable smoke "bombs" installed which produce thick smoke for only a few minutes...
They have probable smoke "bombs" installed which produce thick smoke for only a few minutes...
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:18 am
yes, i'm going with a model train smoke generator... they are about $16.00 on Amazon.com
But why do you want it so its only for a short time?
For some bombs... i'm not sure whats available in your area..
You'll want to test different ones out tho, go for the smallest you can find... because alot of the smoke bombs i've played around with produce ALOT of smoke!
But, this is how i would do it:
As for you're firing situation:
Yes, with CO2 you can use tubing, but i have a feeling what you're trying to do with elevating the guns is going to require quite a bit under the turret...
...i'm pretty sure i know what you mean, but i'm not positive how to do it. I'll try to figure out a way but it may take a few days (if i can do it at all!
)
If anyone else has suggestions for him feel free to jump in!
But why do you want it so its only for a short time?
For some bombs... i'm not sure whats available in your area..
You'll want to test different ones out tho, go for the smallest you can find... because alot of the smoke bombs i've played around with produce ALOT of smoke!
But, this is how i would do it:
Columbus Ironworks wrote:A 6-volt battery or greater with good amperage is needed to set off a smoke bomb. A 1 � volt C cell or 9 volt does not work well.
To set up a firing system you need to have a container with metal sides for a smoke bomb since they shoot out a hot flame while smoking and could set your boat or sails on fire.
The easiest way to set up a system is as shown: A pyrotechnic site will require an area that can vent into the air without flammable materials nearby. You will need 1 �" diameter section of pipe inserted into a piece of wood with the bottom closed off and two small nails on either side of the pipe. Electrical alligator clips can be used to hold a small section of steel wool between the two nails. When the circuit is open, electricity will flow through the steel wool causing it to incandesce and set on fire a fuse causing a smoke bomb to burn, creating a cloud of realistic smoke. The smoke bomb will blow away the steel wool, short circuiting the electrical connection and thereby keeping your battery from discharging.
As for you're firing situation:
Yes, with CO2 you can use tubing, but i have a feeling what you're trying to do with elevating the guns is going to require quite a bit under the turret...
...i'm pretty sure i know what you mean, but i'm not positive how to do it. I'll try to figure out a way but it may take a few days (if i can do it at all!
)If anyone else has suggestions for him feel free to jump in!
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:44 am
Kenny, nice - you have the same motto under your postings like me (in the german forums)
I just spoke to the pyrotechnic-shop-assistant. The smoke cartridges I ordered do not produce much heat (http://www.pyroweb.de/ShopArtikelDetail ... SKU=3115-1)
For the dimensions of the smoke-imitating-shot-system (siss) we try to invent here a turret should have enough space for barrels, tubing and servos. I only doubt the room for a whole pressure system under one turret.
I just spoke to the pyrotechnic-shop-assistant. The smoke cartridges I ordered do not produce much heat (http://www.pyroweb.de/ShopArtikelDetail ... SKU=3115-1)
For the dimensions of the smoke-imitating-shot-system (siss) we try to invent here a turret should have enough space for barrels, tubing and servos. I only doubt the room for a whole pressure system under one turret.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:46 am
well no, you dont need the CO2 tanks directly under the turret... i never put mine there.
What i'm talking about is the system to elevate and lower the guns, most likely they WILL have to be under it. I've been working on a lift system for my guns but mine will be servo controlled to the point where i'm in complete control.... i'm still trying to figure how to to get your's to raise and lower automatically when you fire.
What i'm talking about is the system to elevate and lower the guns, most likely they WILL have to be under it. I've been working on a lift system for my guns but mine will be servo controlled to the point where i'm in complete control.... i'm still trying to figure how to to get your's to raise and lower automatically when you fire.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:07 am
Torp,
Will those fit in you're smokestacks or wheres you plan to put them?
-they dont have to go in them now that i think about it... in fact you could lay them down too. In fact, i think it would work even better that way! Get a hose that fits snug around it, tape it to it if its not snug...so smoke doesn't fill the hull. At the other end of you're tube split it off into multiple tubes for however many smokestacks you have (i forget what ship you're doing) and run the tubes up the stacks.... this will thin out the smoke-per-stack making it look more realistic than just one stack with very thick smoke.
Also, you realize thats colored smoke right?
Will those fit in you're smokestacks or wheres you plan to put them?
-they dont have to go in them now that i think about it... in fact you could lay them down too. In fact, i think it would work even better that way! Get a hose that fits snug around it, tape it to it if its not snug...so smoke doesn't fill the hull. At the other end of you're tube split it off into multiple tubes for however many smokestacks you have (i forget what ship you're doing) and run the tubes up the stacks.... this will thin out the smoke-per-stack making it look more realistic than just one stack with very thick smoke.
Also, you realize thats colored smoke right?
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:10 am
nervermind, the derf!
Also, i'd still lay some protection around the smoke bomb if its going to be on wood, better safe than sorry! I also recommend waterproofing all your electronic equipment even tho most people dont... its not that much more difficult and its worth it in the long run if by some act of god you sink!
Also, i'd still lay some protection around the smoke bomb if its going to be on wood, better safe than sorry! I also recommend waterproofing all your electronic equipment even tho most people dont... its not that much more difficult and its worth it in the long run if by some act of god you sink!
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:27 pm
Kenny, why not to put one generator per stack? Isnt that easier?
At least, my snowie gets a generator which just sticks into the funnel from the top, together with a funnel cap. Funnel is sealed from below, and just provides a 2-pin electro connector, on which the entire smoke assembly slides on.
Im not sure if im going to put only smoke gen there, or also a small motor with a fan to make sure smoke comes out in masses ;o)
At least, my snowie gets a generator which just sticks into the funnel from the top, together with a funnel cap. Funnel is sealed from below, and just provides a 2-pin electro connector, on which the entire smoke assembly slides on.
Im not sure if im going to put only smoke gen there, or also a small motor with a fan to make sure smoke comes out in masses ;o)
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:37 pm
Petros-
Well he's using a smoke bomb... those things (at least everyone i've used) put out ALOT of smoke, very very thick smoke.... it'll look more like an oil field is on fire than a smokestack...
One bomb divided up among stacks should thin it out at least a little bit...
In my next ship i'm probably going to have 3 model train smoke gens, 1 for each stack... i dont want the smoke TOO thick, but i want it to be somewhat realistic... good idea on the fan, although with the bombs they dont have much trouble propelling the smoke... and i dont think the generators i'm buying will need them but if they do i'll have to incorporate that idea!
Uli-
I've begun drafting ideas for your guns.... its going to be less complex than i expected but i had a few questions.
You want the turrets to turn... do you want this so they turn both directions? you want to control how far they turn or just push a button and they turn 90 degrees? Also, is it okay if all 4 turretst turn at the same time or do you want it so only 2 do at a time?
Well he's using a smoke bomb... those things (at least everyone i've used) put out ALOT of smoke, very very thick smoke.... it'll look more like an oil field is on fire than a smokestack...
One bomb divided up among stacks should thin it out at least a little bit...
In my next ship i'm probably going to have 3 model train smoke gens, 1 for each stack... i dont want the smoke TOO thick, but i want it to be somewhat realistic... good idea on the fan, although with the bombs they dont have much trouble propelling the smoke... and i dont think the generators i'm buying will need them but if they do i'll have to incorporate that idea!
Uli-
I've begun drafting ideas for your guns.... its going to be less complex than i expected but i had a few questions.
You want the turrets to turn... do you want this so they turn both directions? you want to control how far they turn or just push a button and they turn 90 degrees? Also, is it okay if all 4 turretst turn at the same time or do you want it so only 2 do at a time?
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:35 pm
So...
I have a system to turn the turrets all at once (previously designed for one of my ships)
And i have a system to fire the way you want...
ONE PROBLEM
They wont work together!
The firing system i designed wont allow you to turn (unfortunately).... unless we turn it sideways but i dont think there would be enough room for it. How wide will she be?
I have a system to turn the turrets all at once (previously designed for one of my ships)
And i have a system to fire the way you want...
ONE PROBLEM
They wont work together!
The firing system i designed wont allow you to turn (unfortunately).... unless we turn it sideways but i dont think there would be enough room for it. How wide will she be?
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:16 pm
this is what one friend suggested:
Hobby servos are great for barrel elevation. In this case, 1 could be used for each turret. Depending on the size (scale of the ship wasn't mentioned, that I saw) it's going to probably take something pretty small to fit inside the gunhouses. I use Hitech & Hobbico sub-micro metal-gear servos for most barrel elevations. The shock of firing can tear up plastic gears, but that may not be an issue here. One servo per turret could elevate both barrels, acting as a cam. In the "neutral" or centered position, neither barrel is elevated; moving the servo up to full one way or the other could elevate one barrel or the other. Y-harnesses could be used to ensure that A/B & C/D operate together; servo reversers on 1 of each pair of servos could make them operate opposite, if a mechanical solution isn't practical. I don't believe that any turrets need to rotate > 360 degrees, so wrapping of elevation servo leads shouldn't be a problem.
Rotation can be done either with a pair of servos or motors & reversing speed controllers. It should be easy enough to mechanically couple pairs of turrets together, so that only 1 motor/ESC/servo is needed for each forward/aft pair.
"Firing", I don't know what he has in mind. Guns could be fired automatically by tripping a switch or valve as they reach full elevation, IF he wants them to fire only/always at full elevation & never at anything less. Otherwise, some other method will be needed.
Controlling all of this is going to be a challenge. As long as it's not going to be used in combat, with other ships shooting at him, it shouldn't be that big of a deal - nobody will really know when he's shooting in the wrong direct, at the wrong time, with the wrong guns if it's all just for show. Here's a minimal breakdown of individual devices that need to be controlled (each meaning 1 control channel, in standard R/C):
- Rotate A/B turrets
- Rotate C/D turrets
- Elevate A/B turrets (include auto-fire?)
- Elevate C/D turrets (include auto-fire?)
- Fire A1/B2 or A2/B1 (R/C can fire 2 guns per channel)
- Fire C1/D2 or C2/D1
Using a standard R/C set, that's going to take a fair number of channels & doesn't even cover propulsion, rudder, or anything else that he might want to control. Double the firing channels if you want/need anything other than half-salvos; eliminate them if auto-firing on full elevation.
Using a microcontroller sounds sexy. Servicing all those servos isn't going to leave much time to "do" stuff, so I'd use a dedicated multi-servo controller, freeing up the micro to sequence them & ship servo commands over a 2-wire serial interface to the dedicated servo controller. The question then becomes, how do you get aiming & firing data to the microcontroller? You need to tell it where to shoot, & when. What form should this data take, how should it be transmitted from shore to the ship, & what sort of user inputs should be used to generate the aiming/firing commands?
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:27 am
Kenny, microprocessors are your friend.
I'll be able to handle rotation and bearing with two functions on the Dreadnought. As shown here - the programming is easy: it was attempting to do it mechanically that did my head in. If you wanted elevation and firing you'd only need to add a couple more functions.
Andy
I'll be able to handle rotation and bearing with two functions on the Dreadnought. As shown here - the programming is easy: it was attempting to do it mechanically that did my head in. If you wanted elevation and firing you'd only need to add a couple more functions.
Andy
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:56 am
i know nothing about microprocessors....
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:42 am
1. My ship is a WWI German Torpedoboat with three stacks (see B-110 in the scratchbuild-section)
2. I can't divide smoke on that model
3. I have Seuthe-Smoke-Generators, which do not produce a lot of smoke and only white one.
4. I have to try those smoke "bombs" once to say more.
2. I can't divide smoke on that model
3. I have Seuthe-Smoke-Generators, which do not produce a lot of smoke and only white one.
4. I have to try those smoke "bombs" once to say more.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:19 pm
Torpedo, are you sure your smoke gens produce only white smoke? Would changing a fluid help? There are different ones for steam and smoke...
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:13 pm
yes, i dont have my smoke gens yet but they are for white smoke... however i'm pretty sure coloring will change it without harming the generator... i'm going to mix some food coloring together to get black, only put a little in and i'm hoping to get a grayish black smoke...