The Ship Model Forum

My first ever attempt at paint modulation. Worked out as expected on the Wilson (in the background) in combination with 5-O but unnoticeable on the Patterson in 5-N.

Done some work on the Patterson in the meantime but the progress was rather slow. Now comes a longer update to sum it all up.

Painting dilemmas

What dilemmas can there be at something so straightforward and simple as Ms21? Well�

An interesting item popped up while I was painting the deck of the Patterson: looking at the numerous photos showing class members from above, it seemed to me they had not painted anything else than their decks with 20-B � turret tops, Mark 4 radars, sloping funnel uptakes and torpedo tubes show no hint of demarcation lines between 5-N and the horizontal (or sloping) surfaces. I discussed it with Rick and Matt and several interesting aspects came out. First of all, 5-N and 20-B were very close in color, the main difference was their purpose. This makes them really difficult to be told from b&w photos. 20-B was intended for the decks so it was designed to better withstand foot traffic. Most importantly, it was up to the crew/CPO/CO to decide how every part of the ship will be painted. Since e.g. the tops of the 5-in mounts saw little foot traffic, it might have been �common� practice to paint the whole mount with 5-N if in Ms 21. So this was my choice in case of Patterson. Another question surfaced when trying to establish the color of the canvas wrapping on railings atop searchlight tower, aft of funnel and also blast bags on mounts 51 and 52. Mare Island photos from May 1942 show them all unpainted on Patterson, in natural color. The photo showing Patterson closing HMAS Canberra to help removing her crew on the morning after the battle is not really conclusive but the searchlight tower canvas appears more like (faded) dark then light. Her sisters during or shortly after the Guadalcanal landing operation show both options were used, sometimes even combining light blast bags with dark railings coverings as seen e.g. on Ralph Talbot on August 7th, 42. The Bagley class comparison table was updated to include these features. I decided to stay with faded dark canvas for Patterson in the end, although I realize this is quite questionable. I wished to try a different method to mimic the canvas wrapped around the top of the searchlight tower. Usually one would use diluted PVA glue that fills the voids between railings for this purpose, that�s easy and quick. However I noticed that Patterson�s canvas was stretched quote taut. So I used thin aluminium foil which I painted with the relevant 20-B paint and then attached to the railings using PVA glue. I had much more control about how much I wanted to depict the sag of the cloth by pushing (or not) the foil against the railings. BTW the production version of the PE sheet will include two versions of these railings, one �open� and the other one �covered� with canvas.

The following photos show the status quo of the Patterson, still without her main director, radars, torpedo tubes, boat and davits, life rafts, oerlikons etc. Decals have been applied already (therefore the "darker" areas of gloss coat around hull numbers) incl. rubber pads and non-skid walkways on the deck (last pic). The deck was slightly weathered as it is becoming less accessible after some parts are installed, but the ship is waiting for her overall gloss coat and weathering of most of the model.

Looking good Vladi. I really like what you did with the foil for the canvas dodgers. Though, I wouldn't put too much stock in the fact the canvas was unpainted in the shipyard. That would probably be the last thing they'd paint, or perhaps the crew would paint them after they left the yard. But I would think they'd most certainly be painted and not left their natural color, as was spelled out in the camouflage orders. Leaving a white/tan canvas unpainted is a lot different than not painting the top of a turret 20B.

Thanks for your feedback, Martin. I�ve been thinking along the same lines (in case of USN), but there�s evidence it has not always been the case that the canvas was painted. There are not that many clear photos of Bagley-class members "in action", but there are definitely a few that show light-colored (unpainted) canvas while underway. Just three examples from around the time of the Battle of Savo Island: These are actually very helpful in identifying Bagley-class members as they appeared quite similar to each other at that timeframe.

I would think that, sometimes, a worn dodger has to be replaced prior to any dockyard visit, from possible spares. Maybe from a tender. So there could be any number of reasons why it wasn't painted at a particular time.

Thank you Dan, totally agreed.

I confess the reason I chose faded dark dodgers for Patterson (in the given uncertain situation) was to make her appear another bit more different from Bagley that I still plan to complete later

Absolutely breathtaking work Vladi!

Keep it up!

Matt

Vladi,

Each USN ship had a supply of canvas so they could replace worn/destroyed canvas (Bloomers and railing covers being the primary uses during WWII and as awnings in peacetime) and it was expected that they would be painted as required. There are plenty of images of ships with "natural" canvas or painted canvas at some point in time and maybe even a mix of the two on a ship.

Rick, thanks for your post and sorry for having overseen it. What you wrote sounds indeed very logical, they were replaced as needed. Thanks!

Made some good progress on USS Patterson in the meantime

1. - gloss coat applied
   - weathering using artistic oil paints
   - added remaining details: 20mm oerlikons, life rafts, main director, radar antennae, TBS antenna, whaleboat and davits
   - added rigging according to photos
   - sprayed matt varnish overall
   - added sailors across the ship (I still plan to add a few more)

So the ship is now close to be finished. Here are a few "control" shots that I use to determine what minor touch-ups are to be done (like on one of the antennae running from the funnel to secondary conn).

It can be also noticed that the national flag is missing. I�m using a white decal paper on which you can print on a laser printer. But the flag measures out to approx. 1.7 mm in height in 1/700 and that's almost impossible to print clearly. However, the most difficult turned out to form such a small decal into a "flying" shape. I�m using a piece of aluminium foil as a base to which the decals are applied from both sides, using Mr. Mark Setter to soften them up. I had some 2mm high flags for test, but the decals keep breaking Any suggestions welcome!

Excellent work, Vladi! She looks great.

I have used the same method for the flags in the past (decal laid down on foil) and haven't run into that problem. Not sure why you are - maybe the decals are old?

What are you clear coating the decals with before applying them? If it's an acrylic or solvent based clear, that may be what's cracking. I've found that Microscale's Liquid Decal Film has a bit of flex in it and behaves better in such situations: Liquid Decal Film

B E A U T I F U L ! (in every respect)

Vladi wrote: Any suggestions welcome!

how about cigarette paper or thermal receipt paper ?

Thank you, Martin, Devin and Stefano!

It may be the decal paper is old, I�m not getting younger either

Thanks for the hint, I havent�worked with Liquid Decal Film in the past.

And interesting idea about the cigarette paper - Stefano, do you mean to try printing on it? But that would have to be on two layers, I can�t imagine printing a flag of this size that precisely from both sides of one paper...

SG1 wrote:And interesting idea about the cigarette paper - Stefano, do you mean to try printing on it? But that would have to be on two layers, I can�t imagine printing a flag of this size that precisely from both sides of one paper...

Vladi check Stefano Salesi's cigarette paper technique here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37703

or Jim Baumann's way to prevent crackings when using aluminium foil here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7353

Thank you, Stefano! The usual method worked for me in the end, but I�ll definitely experiment next time

Destroyer USS Patterson DD-392, Battle of Savo Island, Aug 9, 1942



�WARNING! WARNING! STRANGE SHIPS ENTERING HARBOR.�

This famous signal was issued by USS Patterson�s captain over TBS just after sighting a Japanese cruiser at 01:43. Commander Walker�s next order to fire torpedoes was unfortunately overheard in the noise of 5in gun as Patterson fired a starshell. She then got involved in a gun battle with Japanese light cruisers Tenryu and Yubari, receiving a hit aft. With two aft guns disabled and a large fire started, Patterson drew blood at the Japanese side, too.



My model shows Patterson after executing a sharp turn to port and aiming guns and torpedoes to open fire on the enemy.

This was my first fully 3D printed kit (except PE parts of course) and it worked very well for me. The 3D printing lines on the hull remain faintly visible on close inspection of the starboard side in macrophotography, next time I�ll try to sand them down slightly and/or use a heavier primer. These cannot be seen by the naked eye though.



The research phase was really interesting. The level of available photographic evidence varies by Bagley class members but the characteristics of each ship came out quite clear as seen in Bagley-class destroyers � Differences as of summer 1942.







Parts used

Kraken Hobbies

• 1/700 USS Patterson DD-392 (1942) + Waterline hull + decals
• 1/700 Bagley Class Photo Etch Set (design Vladi�s Navy)

Shelf Oddity 1/700

• US Navy 20mm Oerlikon Single Machine Gun
• US Navy Ammunition Boxes for 20 mm shells
• US Navy Spardeck Fittings (26' whale boats, 5in practice loader)
• US Navy Searchlights
• US Navy Life Rafts
• US Navy Officers
• US Navy Sailors
• 0.06mm Rigging Metal Wire

My own decals for ship�s name, non-skid pads and U.S. flag; printed by laser printed on transparent and white decal paper



References

• Floating Drydock 1/96 plan G-DD387 USS Blue DD387 1943
• Booklets of General Plans for USS Blue 1942 and USS Henley 1942 kindly shared by Egilman
• About 80 prewar and early war photographs of Bagley-class members, many of them from various online sources, especially Naval History and Heritage Command and Navsource.org and others kindly provided by Rick E Davis and Dick Jensen
• Modelwarships.com: Calling All 1,500 tonner (USN DD) fans!
• Bagley-class at Destroyerhistory.com

Many thanks to

• Rick E Davis for all his help in finding the relevant information and providing guidance and photos from his great collection - and a lot of patience, too
• Matt Enochs of Kraken Hobbies for embracing and supporting the whole idea of creating a 3D printed Bagley class kit, for all his patience with my � at times - daily feeds of comments, and, indeed, for providing me with the prototype kit
• Egilman for sharing his wealth of BOGPs

Check my album on Flickr for more photos in higher resolution.

She's beautiful Vladi. Very inspiring work. Congrats on a great build.

Thank you

Wow. Ditto what I wrote about Australia.