Calling all Independence-class LCS fans

[navydavesof]

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 3W-087.jpg
-"So is this where the mission modules go?"

"Wellll, no. I mean if we had any yes, but we don't."

-"Is this where the amphibious troops go?"

"Um...no. We had to give up that mission, too. We can't really get too close to a hostile shore. We're made out of aluminum."

-"So...is this where the mine-hunting devices go?"

"Oh, about that. We don't do the mine hunting any more, either."

-"Sonar?"

"Nope."

-"Is this where the helicopters go?"

"YES! But we use it to play football mostly."

[Avery Boyer]

As interesting as this discussion of the real ships is, just to turn it back to models briefly, I'd like to ask the expert's opinion of the Trumpy kit. Looking at Peter Van Buren's beautiful build in the gallery, there is something decidedly off about the bridge/mast area. The mast looks like it's angled wrong. It might be too tall as well. Looking at the drawings included with the kit (the painting guide) it looks perfect from the front, not quite right from the side. But it looks even worse on the built up model. The bridge also looks off but I can't tell if that's just because the mast is wrong or if there's something screwy about the whole front end of the superstructure. I don't have any drawings to compare the model to, so I can't say for sure exactly what's wrong with it.

[Russ2146]

Not enough slope to the aft legs of the tripod mast?
The Bar type radar antenna in front of the mast is too close to the structure to permit rotation and is hrd to see if it is really on the actual ship.
The bridge may not look quite right due to the weathering?

[Avery Boyer]

I think it definitely has to do with the slope of the legs, both for and aft. After comparing the Trumpy kit with photos of the real thing and of the Bronco kit, I think the legs on the model are way too thick (2-3 times the scale diameter of the real ones) and that messes with the angles. Fortunately not too difficult to fix. I'll assume that the bridge will look OK with a proper mast, unless I can find something specific that's wrong with it. Not sure what I'll do about the heavy weathering. Does anyone know exactly what the coating on the real ship is? I'm assuming it's not bare aluminum, but what IS it exactly? Just a paint that weathers badly?

[navydavesof]

I think it definitely has to do with the slope of the legs, both for and aft. After comparing the Trumpy kit with photos of the real thing and of the Bronco kit, I think the legs on the model are way too thick (2-3 times the scale diameter of the real ones) and that messes with the angles. Fortunately not too difficult to fix. I'll assume that the bridge will look OK with a proper mast, unless I can find something specific that's wrong with it. Not sure what I'll do about the heavy weathering. Does anyone know exactly what the coating on the real ship is? I'm assuming it's not bare aluminum, but what IS it exactly? Just a paint that weathers badly?

The CO of the Independence told me the vast majority of the ship was unpainted, and they were relying on weathering to darken the color of the ship and reduce miantenance.

[Russ2146]

Avery,

I notice on the model and in the photos, look at the bridge windows that are at a 45 degree angle to the centerline. It looks like the Parallelogram fore most of the aft windows is slightly different from the aft most of the forward three. In addition, I think the port beam photo shows that the corner where the 45 degree face meets the side face is a little closer to verticle than I would expect. You can also see this in mstazz62's build thread.

Russ

[Timmy C]

NLOS' replacement: Griffin:
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2011/01/11/navy- ... e-for-lcs/

[Bigdaddy Mark]

Wow, when my son was home for his Christmas break he picked up the Dragon kit for me to have a late winter project. Now that I'm done reading this thread I'm not sure if I want to open the box. I'm half afraid some kind of serpent will climb out.

Oh well, I guess I'll paint the bathroom this winter.

[Tracy White]

No worries, I tidied up a bit so y'all can focus on the models.

[Bigdaddy Mark]

No worries, I tidied up a bit so y'all can focus on the models.

I'm not sure if I'm going to start the Laffey or the Independence yet. I'm not up to having two going at the same time, and the Laffey has been taunting me for quite some time.

[Russ2146]

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ation.html

Friday, May 06, 2011
LCS-2; I&W or just FRI speculation?
From multiple sources amongst the Mayport Underground - some dots out there about LCS-2 that may or may not connect. Fun to think about if nothing else.

This AM there was a notice on the Mayport gate's electronic sign:
Welcome USN IG, ADM (unk); Welcome FFC, ADM Harvey
LCS-2 is at the end of Bravo pier. She was all barricaded up, had two black Suburbans and a lot of security and even a dog team around her.

Was Harvey and the IG aboard? If so, did they find out why LCS-2 has been tied to the pier since early December 2010? She went out TUE and came back WED, so at least she can get underway.

There also was a diving company truck set up by the pier as if they were doing some underwater work.

Maybe all the above is unrelated, probably. Thing is - in the above is enough for a good writer to string a novel together. Pick your plot line.

Admiral Harvey is Commander, U.S. Fleet Forces Command

[navydavesof]

At least one of the ship's systems is cool!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvo7Mb9EwJY

[Tracy White]

Rough estimate; the video showed at least ten launches to one hit... I hope the real thing's success rate is better

[Russ2146]

Saturday, June 18, 2011
Rust never sleeps ... on LCS-2
I think we know one of the reasons why LCS-2 has an open tab at Singleton's.
The U.S. Navy has discovered �aggressive� corrosion in Austal Ltd. (ASB)�s first new combat ship designed for operating close to shore.

The corrosion is in the propulsion areas of the USS Independence, the Littoral Combat Ship built by the Mobile, Alabama-based subsidiary of Australia�s Austal and General Dynamics Corp. (GD)

�This could be a very serious setback,� said Norman Polmar, an independent naval analyst and author in Alexandria, Virginia. �If the ship develops a serious flaw, you�re not going to continue producing them.�

Permanent repair will require drydocking the ship and removing its �water jets,� a key component of the propulsion system, the Navy said in a written statement to congressional appropriations committees provided to Bloomberg News.

Aluminum-hulled ships such as Austal�s tend to rust faster than steel-hulled ships, Polmar said. �But I�m surprised it happened so early,� he said. �This ship is brand new.�
And they want to operate this for a couple of decades + with minimal manning in tropical seas ....

Sigh.

Speaking of sub-optimal. Our pal Craig Hooper needs to go to PAO school.
While not discussing LCS-2, U.S.S. Independence, specifically, Craig Hooper, Austal�s vice president for sales, marketing and external communication said that �dynamic corrosion is a common problem for any ship.

�It�s a known issue,� Hooper said, �and fixes are widely known in the maritime community.�
Craig. Dude.

Byron, call you office.
Navy officials were concerned about the potential for corrosion during construction of the ship because of �dissimilar metals,� particularly near the steel propulsion shafts, Bloomberg reported.
We were discussing this problem with the design what - well over four years ago?

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/

[Russ2146]

Pentagon calls LCS "unreasonably expensive" and "impractical"
Wait .... let me put that in better context.

From our buddy over at ELP.
On another note, this from insidedefense.com (subscription).
Pentagon Waives Testing Requirement For Navy's Littoral Combat Ship

The Pentagon has waived the statutory requirement for full-up, system-level survivability testing of the Littoral Combat Ship because it would be "unreasonably expensive" and "impractical," a decision blessed by the Defense Department's top weapons tester, DOD officials say.
LCS - the gift that keeps giving. Roll in the fail.

I guess putting Sailors in combat not knowing the ability of their "warship" to actually do that "overseas contingency operation" thingy is asking too much. Making sure you can explain to the family members of those killed in combat why their sons and daughters are at the bottom of the sea is "unreasonably expensive" and "impractical."

I'll let you answer that question in front of a Senate investigation committee sometime later this decade or next.

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/

[Tracy White]

ALUMINUM
DOESN'T
RUST!

[Russ2146]

Rust is oxidized iron/steel. Rusting is the oxidation process. But aluminum does oxidize. What you call the white spunge it becomes, I don't know.

Here's a newspaper article, which looks to be what the blog was quoting. http://blog.al.com/live/2011/06/report_ ... uffer.html

Think maybe the water jet has steel components that are rusting, while the aluminum corrodes, both due to the proximity of the different metals and the electron transfer that occurs in such a situation?

[Tracy White]

Rust is a form of corrosion, but one that affects iron, not aluminum. It's actually an oxidation, and aluminum does oxidize, but it isn't rust. It's analogous to saying the Independence is a battleship.

[carr]

It sounds like this is a case of galvanic corrosion which occurs when dissimilar metals are in contact. It also sounds like this is the water jet pitting issue that became apparent some time ago. If it's galvanic corrosion, possibly worsened by something like cavitation, one of the common solutions is the use of sacrificial anodes such as zinc. Zinc plates have been applied to ships for many years. It's hard to believe that this issue would have been allowed to get to this point since it's a very well known phenomenon.

[navydavesof]

Sounds to me like the slow death of LCS-2 class has been accelerated.