Calling all Kriegsmarine Deutschland-class (Panzerschiffe) fans

[Aidan]

Hi Guys, Ever such a slight change of direction if I may, I'm shortly starting on Heller's 1/400 Graf Spee, I'll be adding a P/E set and brass barrels. Are there any major clangers with this kit (such as there are with their Hood kit) I'm not into counting rivits and I'm not too bothered by absolute 100% accuracy, just any real bad mistake's is what I'm interested in, as long as it makes a reasonably acceptable model, thats good enough for me ( 11 months messing about with their Hood model has really put me off trying to sort out all the mistakes, ommisions, innacuracies etc, I dont want to go down that road again as I've really lost interest in the Hood model now). Also, one thing I cant find is, were the wooden decks left natural wood or were they painted, I've found everything else, camo colors, bow wave etc, but cannot find anything about the decks. Finally, is there any significant differences between Hellers Lutzow and Admiral Scheer model's, in other words is it worth getting both kits or are they "copycat" models, thanks, Aidan.

[Sauragnmon]

Well, point and fact, Lutzow has a completely different bridge structure. The Deutschland/Lutzow differed greatly from her two following warships, the Admiral Scheer and the Admiral Graf Spee. Since you're adding the turned brass barrels and what not, why not do your Graf Spee in her disguised state, where she had the false turret on the superstructure? I don't think I've seen anybody do that one, it'd be rather neat to see one. I'd do it, but my Admiral Scheer has been... well... modified. heavily.

[Aidan]

I had thought about doing GS in her "altered" state, however, I have to date only found one photo of her in that guise with the false twin "B" turret, but it does not show enough of the ship to confirm or deny other aspects such as did she have a false second funnel and white numbers on the bow (supposedly to make her look like an american heavy cruiser) so I'll probably leave that idea until I can get confirmation. Getting back to my origional question, I probably worded it wrongly. I'm aware that Deutschland/Lutzow had a "pole" superstructure, and Scheer had a "tower type" superstructure as built. Both were modified during the war, recieving raked funnel caps, angled bows to replace the straight one's and also Scheer had her superstructure rebuilt with a Lutzow style "pole", plus other bits and bods, I was referring to the actual model kits them selves. From the box art, it appears to me ( I could well be wrong) that Lutzow and Scheer are both modeled as "modified", ie, pole masts, angled bows, raked funnels etc. I was wondering if those two kits are in fact the same (basic) kit, just different names, such as the Bismarck/Tirpitz or Scharnhorst/Gnesenau or KGV/PoW offerings from Heller. Unfortunately, model shops are very few and far between in Ireland (the nearest one to me is over 40 miles away) and it's just about impossible to get a "look in the box", hence my silly question.

[Sauragnmon]

The image I've seen was an extensively researched line image, and no, she did not have the appearance of a second funnel or white numbers, she was still in German camoflage, the second turret was placed simply to make her appear to be the Scharnhorst, even to the point they added the sloped front to the false turret. They were attempting to use distance to trick the eye, mostly at surface level. There were too many things a spotter could have pointed out that would not have been American about her, not to mention her escorts.

[Aidan]

That clears that aspect up them, thanks for that, perhaps I might venture the false turret route after all. Any ideas where I could find some decent photo's or picture's of the dummy turret, as I say, the one photo I have shows the turret, but it's not good enough to make one up from, rather blurry and indistinct, and the angle is unhelpfull, seems to be taken from water level looking up so the shape is somewhat hidden. Any ideas regarding the kits themselves at all, thanks in advance, Aidan.

[Jefgte]

Don't forget the fantastic work made by Antonio & Abram about the Panzerschiffs

German Navy Forum:



http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 435.0.html



Jef

[Filipe Ramires]

Greetings,

Just got myself the WEM photo-etch set for this class and now I can move properly with the construction of my Graf Spee from Fujimi. Plus got the sets of DKM Doors and Hatches and DKM Cable Reels. Have already WEM set for the DKM AA guns plus the GMM set for German Warships. Pitty the model is badly conceived and pretty much I am using nearly nothing from the original model. I had to cut the entire main deck out because of potential putty issues wrecking the details and so I did it in scratch. The structures are most likely all to be in scratch as well. Looks a good challenge to improve my over-detail and scratchbuild skills.

Filipe

[Mr. Grumpy]

the heller kits are pretty much semi-kits. very little detail on the parts...well they are pretty old molds.

the flak mountings barely pass as AA weapons.


I have the Scheer kit with the tom's set for it. i will be getting the WEM set sometime in the future. i don't think anyone has posted pics of a kit under construction with this new set. it should do wonders for it. i think NIKO makes replacement 15 cm guns and 10.5 cm guns for the heller kits. pacific front has them. the light flak needs some good resin replacements...the only other alternative are the WEM photo etch you bought.

the kits are not very nice unless you are a miracle worker...but they are the only ones who make a nice range of KM ships large scale.

[Filipe Ramires]

Well, I am going to give Graf Spee some work very soon so I will open a topic on the Picture Post section for the Fujimi model. Took just a few photos of how she is now which is still in an early stage so I think everyone can take an idea of the progress and the application of the set from WEM plus all the other work and details.

[Deckard]

Hi guys, many thanks to Antonio and Abram for the wonderful Panzerschiff studies. I have the Heller 1/400 Lutzow and I think it's quite fine. The light AAA is very basic but is easily replaced with the items on the WEM etched set, though I'm going to have to get the extra light weapons set because I will need more quad 20's. The etched 37 and 20's can be greatly improved by replacing the flat barrels with stretched sprue or some very thin equivalent. Tedious I know but well, you're a scale ship modeler .

My Lutzow is marked specifically inside the hull as such and apart from perhaps the armament and hull halves it would have to be a completely different molding from the other two.

I've been trawling through the schemes for Lutzow (to Deutschland too much scratch and mod for me) and the best I think is the 'Norway blues' camo for Operation Husar. That's how I want to model it. Can anybody give me references to the paint colours please for this scheme? Any enamel paint is acceptable however, the easiest for me to access are WEM, Modelmaster, Humbrol and Tamiya.
Regards James.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao James,

here the Lutzow with Siberien Husar camo model of Heller I made 4 years ago.

Colours are 3 Norwegian blue tones and you can buy them into WEM set of KM Colours.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

You can see a colour photo of her here in :

http://kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464

Bye and happy modeling .... Antonio

[Mr. Grumpy]

The distant cousin of the Panzerschiff, HMNS De Ruyter HP's 1/700 kit.





had to use a cheap digital camera i found laying around the house...there's a better one somewhere but i haven't quite found it yet.

[Mr. Grumpy]

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

something useful :

http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Battleship ... 1934840696

Ciao Antonio

[drdoom1337]

I wanted to ask, and people here will most likely be more in the know than I, how difficult is it to present the Heller Graf Spee in it's fit at the 1937 Spithead Fleet Review (see photograph)?

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello,

the Heller Graf Spee is the December 1939 version of the Panzerschiffe, even after the removal of the tool used to recover the airplane occurred into the Atlantic Ocean.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

If you want to make her with the 1937 look, you must remove the searchlight single platformfrom the front of the main tower and put 2 of them aside the main tower structure, than you must add the airplane recovery tool and change the Airplane from the Arado AR196 back to the Heinkel HE61 biplane.

At least those are the main changes,..you can see some details here on my drawings made with Abram Joslin time ago and refer to them.

http://kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467

Happy modeling Bye Antonio

[Admiral John Byng]

Graf Spee Turret tops:

Which one is more correct?

Academy have moulded a chevron on the top of theirs. It looks like the Trumpeter one has suffered from poor moulding at the bottom right-hand side.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=45720

Sorry for borrowing your thread Burkhardt, but I hadn't seen them close up before

[Lesforan]

Trumpeter has huge rivets. The Academy chevron seems to be inspired by the rear trim moulding of a 1959 Chevy. What I intend to do: get the Academy kit and sand off the chevron.

[Marco_Trigo]

Wow... I don't like either Trumpeter's titanic rivets or Academy's blandness and that chevron is something I never saw. Academy's barrels look rather fat too...

Marco

[Burkhardt]

Hi all,


the Trumpeter rivets are very small! The chevron is a cable around the Turret! I don`t know for what!!! See picture of "Deutschland"