Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[BlackSheep214]

Ok, I�ve found some information of my dad�s Navy service. He enlisted to join the Navy on March 13, 1957 and was assigned to USS Wadleigh and fulfilled his 4 year obligation. He then was transferred to Naval Reserve on March 10, 1961 - March 12, 1963; assigned to USS Courtney, a destroyer escort.

[BB62vet]

Ok, I�ve found some information of my dad�s Navy service. He enlisted to join the Navy on March 13, 1957 and was assigned to USS Wadleigh and fulfilled his 4 year obligation. He then was transferred to Naval Reserve on March 10, 1961 - March 12, 1963; assigned to USS Courtney, a destroyer escort.

BS214,

OK, so I stand by my comment about the scale - with your obvious experience and interest in a challenge, I would again recommend you consider the larger model (Revell 1/144 kit). And, it will be a challenge!!! (as I'm finding out also). Now that you know the years of your dad's service aboard you can plan what drawings might be appropriate for your build.

One other thing you might do is look up for a USS WADLIEGH Association or reunion group - they can sometimes provide very worthwhile info for just such an endeavor.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Rick E Davis]

Black Sheep,

OK, then the last two images I posted will cover her configuration. There are additional images at Navsource ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/689.htm ...

Scale of your model is up to you and your wallet.

For whatever reason, there were no Booklet of General Plans for USS WADLEIGH at the National Archives, College Park, MD, so I can't help with drawings specific to her. I'll look for drawings of a sister that is at least close to her configuration. The Unit Commanders Cabin was installed on about one out of four FLETCHER's recommissioned for the KW. I do have drawings for that, just not dimensioned ... will need to be scaled.

I do know that she had the Mk 2 ASW Torpedo Launch System (w/two Mk 4 torpedo launchers, one port, one starboard, for launching Mk 32 torpedos) installed in 1955 and the K-guns removed at the same time. I don't know "Exactly" where the Mk 4 launchers were installed behind the water break bulwarks, but I have a good idea that it would be similar to ones installed on USS CASSIN YOUNG (DD-793), even though she is a 5-Gun FLETCHER. That is based on the fact that both CASSIN YOUNG and WADLEIGH had the Mk 2TLS installed at BosNY at the same time (they were assigned to the same DesDiv). That is good, because CASSIN YOUNG still exists and has her Mk 4 launchers and the rail reload system onboard. Plenty of images. There were about four or five different configurations of Mk 4 launcher locations and reload methods. These were quite confusing for me to track in records, photos, and drawings.

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0579365.jpg ...

Rick

[BlackSheep214]

Hmmm... So USS Wadleigh went from a 5 gun destroyer to a 4 gun destroyer by the time my dad entered service in 1957. With a bit of scratch building - square bridge, removal of the 5th gun and whatnot is a challenge. The question begs can the Tamiya USS Fletcher be converted to a 4 gun destroyer? If so, is there an aftermarket source to fill in what was once the 5th gun? Would the square bridge from Trumpeter's USS Sullivans fit on the Tamiya kit?

I saw the price on the 1/44 scale Fletcher and that's definitely out of my price range. Plus, I hate working with a ton of PE.

[Rick E Davis]

Black Sheep,

I'm having problems with the Modelwarship's SPAM filters. So I send you a PM to establish E-Mail communications.

Rick

[Rick E Davis]

The ex-USS CONNER (DD-582) would be partly useful. CONNER was converted in 1958-59 and transferred to Greece (as ASPIS). I went through the August 1959 BGP at NARA and took digital camera shots of her BGP. She lacks several features that USS WADLEIGH had, namely the Unit Commanders Cabin and the Mk 2 TLS is configured differently. CONNER's Mk 2 TLS reload stowage had the late model stowage rack and small crane method. Completely different than what WADLEIGH had. There could be other pieces of equipment unique to USN FLETCHER's as well.

The closes BGP plans I could find to WADLEIGH when she was in service and with the Unit Commander's Cabin, was for USS AMMEN (DD-527), since she was decommissioned at about the same time and unlike units with the Cabin that were in service after they were decommissioned, fits the right configuration.

A part of what I was trying to post last night and the Modelwarships SPAM filter didn't like my post, I'll try just posting these images and text. (I think it didn't like all the links I posted to various 3-D Printers for parts he needs or could use.

The deckhouse changes for the aft twin 3-in/50 RFG mount and Mk 56 director isn't a difficult scratch build. Neither is the deckhouse additions amidships for the two twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts to sit on and the Unit Commander's Cabin. Here are a couple of plan views showing the Unit Commander's cabin and the midships twin 3-in/50 RFG mount installation locations onboard USS AMMEN. The problem with AMMEN's plans, is that she didn't have the Mk 2 TLS installed, instead she had the PMGL installed. But, we can find the Mk 2 TLS install and stowage like used on USS CASSIN YOUNG.

There are many more details that are needed. The radar antennas and tripod (which may need to be scratch made with brass and/or plastic rod) are things not generally available, but the SPS-6C radar antenna maybe be available from somewhere, 3-D printing is growing fast and I can't keep up with what is being made.

I can provide more images when you get there.

[BlackSheep214]

Pascalemod,

Hank is generally correct in a broad view of the FLETCHER class configurations from 1950 to 1972 while in USN service. But, you are asking about USS WADLEIGH (DD-689) "during the Korean War". I have to ask for what period during the KW are you wanting to model this ship?

When the FLETCHERS were mobilized from mothballs at the start of the KW and for that matter, what became the more intense Cold War, the plans for upgrading them evolved over their service life. The authorized upgrades changed configuration appearances and depending on when a destroyer was overhauled or retired, would last for only a short while or remain until the ship was scrapped.

Initially 41 out of the 82 (all Square-Bridge units) "Fleet Destroyer" configured FLETCHERS and recommissioned in the mobilization (18 other FLETCHERS were being converted to the ASW DDE configuration), were authorized to be upgraded with three twin RFG mounts in place of one 5-in/38 mount and all their 40-mm guns. Due to cost overruns, only 39 FLETCHERS while in USN SERVICE were were upgraded with 3-in RFG mounts in 1950-54 period. This modification became known as the "4-Gun FLETCHERS". USS WADLEIGH was one of those units, being so modified in early 1953 (corrected) at BosNY. The remaining FLETCHERS in service, were modified to what was known as the "5-Gun FLETCHERS", that basically was the late WWII Anti-Kamikaze Mod with two quad 40-mm mounts, also replacing the forward twin 40-mm mounts with two Hedgehogs and "generally" new radars (most on tripod foremasts) and sensors.

Prior to that upgrade, she was assigned to the Atlantic Fleet and didn't see service in the Southeast Asia area until, AFTER she was upgraded and a year of training, in May-November 1953 timeframe. Actually she didn't see service off Korea, but rather off Taiwan during a crisis period with China, before returning to Atlantic Fleet service. She went on to serve in the USN in the Atlantic Fleet until 1962 and saw additional modifications to her configuration, primarily upgraded electronics.

So to fully answer your question, I need to know just when, timeframe, you which to model USS WADLEIGH?

Early recommissioning configuration for WADLEIGH has her still in a basic WWII configuration that could be best matched by the Trumpeter "THE SULLIVANS" 1/350 kit. This image shows her during March 1952 when she was used in a movie.



After her 3-in RFG upgrade, she had the standard configuration as authorized at the time. Note that she has the SPS-6C radar and minimal ECM suite at this time. The ECM suite and her ASW armament would be upgraded in late 1950s.



AS for upgrading a 1/350 scale kit to a 1950's configuration, the Trumpeter 1/350 scale THE SULLIVANS kit is likely your best option. The Tamiya 1/350 FLETCHER kit would require more work with an aftermarket 3-D printed Square-Bridge form Model Monkey beside all the other components. There are aftermarket twin 3-in RFG mounts, Mk 56 GFCS, and Mk 63 GFCS available. But, you will need to scratch build the revisions to the midships deckhouse and aft deckhouse along with the "tubs" required for the RFG mounts. Model Monkey has "generic" twin 3-in RFG "tubs" that appear to be close enough when modified for a 4-Gun FLETCHER build.

At one time there "WAS" a 4-Gun conversion set for Tamiya 1/350 kit in resin. But, it had a LOT OF ERRORS and is no longer available in any case.

This is exactly the photo I've been looking for! My dad served on the Wadleigh in 1957. I still need to find a top view image.

[BlackSheep214]

BlackSheep214, I have the Booklet of General Plans USS Conner DD 582 1959 if you need as I think it has same layout as your father's destroyer.

Oh nice! Anything would help.

[Rick E Davis]

Drawings of USS CONNER (DD-582) in 1959 (as configured for transfer to Greece) would be useful for "General Layout" for some parts of USS WADLEIGH (DD-689), but not an exact plan her in 1953-57.

I already covered the differences between ex-USS CONNER and USS WADLEIGH in an earlier posting in this thread ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&start=2040#p963751 ... major differences are that ex-CONNER did NOT have an Unit Commander's Cabin installed and the Mk 4 Torpedo Launchers to launch Mk 32 torpedoes and the reload method are different than what was installed on USS WADLEIGH.

You would have to use the drawings for the Unit Commander's Cabin aft of the bridge I posted earlier and use the CASSIN YOUNG photos for the Mk 4 launcher and "rail-reload method for stowing two Mk 32 torpedos", plus another Mk 32 on the launcher. See attached images onboard USS CASSIN YOUNG and a photo onboard an unknown FLETCHER in 1956, with the Rail-Reload method for launching Mk 32 torpedos.

[BlackSheep214]

what drawings do you need?

Top and side views mainly.

[BlackSheep214]

I looked in Model Monkey website for conversions parts in order for me to build my dad's ship, USS Wadleigh. These are the items I believe I need to achieve my goal.

The following two items I know is needed....

1/350 Fletcher class "Square-bridge" Pilot House, Bath Iron Works-type

1/350 Fletcher class "Square-bridge" Pilot House, Bath Iron Works-type | Model Monkey (model-monkey.com)


1/350 Fletcher class "Square Bridge" Deck and Combat Information Center (CIC)


1/350 Fletcher class "Square Bridge" Deck and Combat Information Center (CIC) | Model Monkey (model-monkey.com)


The next three items I'm not 100% sure but took a wild assumption I need these...


1/350 Fletcher class Anti-aircraft Director Deck House, late war


1/350 Fletcher class Anti-aircraft Director Deck House, late war | Model Monkey (model-monkey.com)


1/350 Fletcher class Midships Quadruple Bofors Tubs, late war


1/350 Fletcher class Midships Quadruple Bofors Tubs, late war | Model Monkey (model-monkey.com)


1/350 Fletcher class Forward Twin Bofors Tubs


1/350 Fletcher class Forward Twin Bofors Tubs | Model Monkey (model-monkey.com)


I found this on scalemates and it looks to be the very same type of mast except I need to make this a tripod mast set up

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/infini- ... t--1307138


The only thing I'm having sort of a hard time finding are the twin guns.

Any input would be appreciated.

[Rick E Davis]

Blacksheep,

We are repeating what has been discussed before. Let me review.

Your father's ship was USS WADLEIGH (DD-689), that he served on between 1957 to 1961.

USS WADLEIGH was upgraded to the "4-Gun" configuration with the Unit Commander Cabin in 1954.

Therefore, your father's ship DID NOT HAVE ANY 40-mm guns in 1957-61. She had FOUR single 5-in/38 and THREE TWIN Mk 33 3-in/50 Rapid Fire Gun (RFG) mounts. NO 20-mm guns.

Model Monkey makes a lot of parts for FLETCHER's useful for modeling your father's ship, including bridge and 5-in mounts. But, Model Monkey DOES NOT make the post-WWII twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts. However, Black Cat Models DOES make the twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts. There are some other vendors that make resin Mk 33 gun mounts, but you need to assemble them and they are a pain to do so.

Black Cat twin 3-in/50 RFG mounts are at ... https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/weapons/29 ... un-x2.html ...

Black Cat Mk 56 directors (you will need one and Model Monkey also makes these) ... https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/gun-direct ... tor-x.html ...

Black Cat Mk 51 directors w/Mk 15 gunsights for the Mk 63 GFCS to control the two amidships twin 3-in mounts ... https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/gun-direct ... ht-x8.html ..

You will need two Hedgehogs as well and Black Cat makes those ... https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/anti-subma ... og-x4.html ...

You WILL need to scratch make the aft deckhouse forward of the aft two 5-in guns and the small deckhouse forward that the Mk 51 w/Mk 15 directors sit on.

You could try using the Scalemates POLE MAST and convert it to a TRIPOD MAST, but you will be throwing away most of the parts on their mast. Scratch building with brass or plastic rod may be a better option. The most difficult items to find for your build, will be the SPS-6 and SPS-10 radar antennas. There are Photoetch versions, but they are hard to assemble and get to look right. I'm hoping for 3-D printed versions.

I have attached a few close-up images showing the aft deckhouse arrangement for the aft twin 3-in mount, the midships pair of twin 3-in mounts with the Unit Commander's Cabin, and a typical tripod foremast like your father's ship would have had when he was onboard.









When your father was onboard USS WADLEIGH, she carried TWO Mk 4 "over-the-side" Torpedo Launchers that I posted photos of on USS CASSIN YOUNG.

Further, I suggest you review what these two guys are doing in building "similar" (but not exactly the same version) of 4-Gun FLETCHER in 1/144 scale. They are MASTER builder's (one scratch builds almost everything and the other guy designs and 3-D prints his OWN PARTS) and you don't have to do everything they are, but you get a better idea of how the basic starting kit has to be changed. Plus, you aren't working with as large of a kit.

Willie's build ... viewtopic.php?f=59&t=163082 ...

Hank's build ... viewtopic.php?f=59&t=163082 ...

[BlackSheep214]

I do appreciate the review. Yes, I am aware it had a tripod mast and she was converted to a 4 gun destroyer. However, now that you�ve provided me another link for AM parts, this helps a great deal.

As far as scratchbuilding the aft deckhouse and forward deckhouse is something I�ll need to study the pictures and figure how to move forward to doing it. I�m not afraid to take on the challenge. It�s what things unexpected things I look forward to doing and how to make it happen. I�ve always build with a mindset of �What Would MacGuyver Do?�

[BB62vet]

R. E. Davis - Thanks for the kind reference "title" etc. - not sure that's entirely warranted.

Blacksheep - I think Rick has provided you with a good starting point for your build. You simply need to make a "punch list" of items that will need to be modified/scratchbuilt that differ from the kit. The 4 gun FLETCHER class ships are not an easy build from a "what's available" point of view if you don't know what you'll need before you start. Your dad's ship had it's own set of individual modifications as did almost every unit that was modernized thru the 50s/60's. My ship (USS STODDARD DD-566) was no exception and as I've found in my research her mods differed from sister ships in her own squadron even though those ships "looked" identical. So do Zebras....

There are 3rd party vendors out there who have a fair number of various items that you can purchase. But the major portion of the deckhouse and upper works will need to be handmade in all likelihood as I found true on my build.

I also have an enlarged sheer plan of the ship taped to my shop wall - I highlight items as they are built, painted, and installed. Sort of a visual event log to let you know what needs to be done.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Rick E Davis]

Hank,

Compared to me, Willie and you are MASTER MODEL BUILDERS.

Anyway, in a sense with 1/350 scale, many of the smaller differences that Willie and you are dealing with in 1/144 scale, aren't necessarily an issue for making a model of a 4-Gun FLETCHER. In 1/350 scale the model will be about 13-in in length. They are either too small to see or aren't worth trying to add. One of Blacksheep's challenges will be the Unit Commander's Cabin addition. Recently I actually acquired "dimensioned" drawings for the 4-Gun mod, including of this area. But, I have not had time to process the "paper drawings" to digital (10-ft + drawings aren't easy to get scanned everywhere, so a 25-mi drive is in order and digital camera shots have their limits ) and then to something I can post (aka cropped views).

[BlackSheep214]

are you doing late war or 1950's version of your father's ship?

My dad served on the USS Wadleigh in 1957

[taskforce48]

These were shared on Facebook today, the current state of the USS Johnston DD-557 I have seen some images but this is the first time aside from the USS Arizona that I have seen a 3D render of a wreck. She was a gallant ship helmed by a crew of what the very definition of hero is. May they always be remembered -

Credit to Parks Stephenson for the render

Matt

[john53]

Hello-I have this kit coming and would like to improve it's looks. What upgrade or PE kits will help out? John

[MartinJQuinn]

Hello-I have this kit coming and would like to improve it's looks. What upgrade or PE kits will help out? John

I've built this kit twice. It definitely needs upgrades. Among the PE sets are:

Five Star

L'Arsenal, which is specifically made for this ship. I used this on my USS Haraden build. Frankly, wasn't that impressed with it. The most useful thing in it were the replacement funnel grates.

Infini makes a PE set, but it's for the round bridge ships. They do make a brass mast set which is a nice upgrade to the plastic masts in the kit.

There is also the venerable Gold Medal Models photo-etch set.

Go to the Fletcher page on Scalemates, and you'll see all the PE, resin and 3D goodies that are available for this class. I'd definitely recommend replacing the bridge, turrets and AA guns with 3D printed parts.

[john53]

Thanks, how is the Toms Model Works PE set? Similar to Gold Medal? John