Calling all Ise (伊勢) and Hyuga (日向) fans

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

And about the Hasegawa kits of IJN Ise and IJN Hyuga in the Hybrid aircraft carriers mode,
they got the training aiming device on their turrets, something that is wrong, cause pictures(during trials for example in 1943) after the conversion show clear that the training aiming device on the remaing 4 turrets where removed.
Fujimi got this right.

hello, Apologize on a much late reply to an old posting.
However for the sake of IJN correctness behold these,pls.


/M.Sasaki

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

And about the Hasegawa kits of IJN Ise and IJN Hyuga in the Hybrid aircraft carriers mode,
they got the training aiming device on their turrets, something that is wrong, cause pictures(during trials for example in 1943) after the conversion show clear that the training aiming device on the remaing 4 turrets where removed.
Fujimi got this right.

hello, Apologize on a much late reply to an old posting.
However for the sake of IJN correctness behold these,pls.


/M.Sasaki

---------------

Just to make sure,the photo section with the device is enlarged,
pr newly attached pic from Gakken "Archive" photo.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Hello Gents!

So I've decided I want to model the elevator in the down position with a (slight) view into the hangar interior. I'm curious to know if there are any shots of the Ise/Hyuga Hangar Interior and/or detailed shots/plans of the elevator? Anyone have information on the girder structure around the deck edge at the Elevator Well? Thanks in advance for the info! CheerS!

yea, that would be a lot of fun to model it. At the moment i�ve got B/W image now,,your dream will come to look like this or perhaps,,
image from the Navy Yard Assoc.Tokyo,jr#41, Research& Build Hyuga section

cheers,
Mutsuo S.

[callen]

Domo Mutsuo!

These photos are very helpful indeed!
Thanks again, you've been a great help.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Domo Mutsuo!

These photos are very helpful indeed!
Thanks again, you've been a great help.

you�re welcome(= do-itashi-mashit� ), Callen. I hope i�m one of the optimists when it comes to ijn ships at all.
As in my previous post about the aiming device, i have a different view, cuz i�m an optimist.

I will see to it to post some more sooner or later relating to the devices.

br
Mutsuo S.

[callen]

you�re welcome(= do-itashi-mashit� ), Callen. I hope i�m one of the optimists when it comes to ijn ships at all.
As in my previous post about the aiming device, i have a different view, cuz i�m an optimist.

I will see to it to post some more sooner or later relating to the devices.

br
Mutsuo S.

Very good. I was following the discussion about these devices and am curious to know the results. I will continue to watch this thread with interest.

[Atma]

And about the Hasegawa kits of IJN Ise and IJN Hyuga in the Hybrid aircraft carriers mode,
they got the training aiming device on their turrets, something that is wrong, cause pictures(during trials for example in 1943) after the conversion show clear that the training aiming device on the remaing 4 turrets where removed.
Fujimi got this right.

hello, Apologize on a much late reply to an old posting.
However for the sake of IJN correctness behold these,pls.


/M.Sasaki

Yes but this is pre 1943 photos. The training aiming device on their turrets have been removed by the time they where converted to Hybrid Carrier/Battleship.
Training aiming devices on main turrets have all gone by 1943, in Heavy Cruisers and in Battleships.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

[Yes but this is pre 1943 photos. [/b]The training aiming device on their turrets have been removed by the time they where converted to Hybrid Carrier/Battleship.
Training aiming devices on main turrets have all gone by 1943, in Heavy Cruisers and in Battleships.
posted by atma

-------
oh yea, the posted pics with the devices are exactly the same pics as I will post for now.
It�altogether will be mighty hard to believe that those are taken pic of before the pre 1943 period.

My new questions are ;

1) I doth�t know who have been telling you that the divice had been removed by the time they were converted to the hybrids.
2) "Devices on the main gun turrets have all gone by 1943 in CAs & BBs"---
so, where have all the devices been gone? (I think i gave a hint to this in another thread.)

3) Did you determine this from existing wartime pics only ? or, have you refered to any documents such as wardiaries or sento shoho ,comfirming the removasl?

br
Mutsuo .S.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

And the Hybrid BB ISE�s ,too
this pic is definitely not from pre-1943!

/Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

Those things that you point are not training aiming devices.
On this pictures there is no training aiming device:

[Atma]

Here you can see also that the training aiming device in the heavy cruiser IJN Nachi is also removed. The picture(more and better pictures can be found on the page 24-25 on the Classic Warships Publishing book Warship Pictorial number 17) is from 20 September 1943.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Those things that you point are not training aiming devices.
On this pictures there is no training aiming device:

:

-------------------------------
hi,
a) I still dont know how sure one can be about that is is not the device on the 1943 Hybrid ISE.

Reason of my irresistable doubt is that the listed ISE pic at Kure you posted is from 1945 and afterwards. and the situations can not be assimilated equally with 1943 time frame where she was having shakeoff cruise, testing every major weapon after the conversion.

b) Then what about 1943 Nov.hybrid Hyuga?
Any proof that the big object on the nr.1 turret is equally NOT the device in question?

c) The time is 1945 and after at Kure, ISE/HYUGA were in AA combat situation in a war zone, it�s drerfor advisable to place/move the device box(s) in another place, for. ex. at the back side of the gun turret as i have hinted in another place of the forums.

d) There are actually still straps to fasten the device with on the nr.1 turret roof of agrounded ISE 1945 ,so that they were in a position to fix the device box anytime they wanted to do practices, i duly suppose.

e)And I�m also sure Oyodo in 1944 has the device on the nr.1 155cm gun r�turret roof, and presumably on nr.2, too.

f) there are also more pics of ijn ships which don�t have their devices on the turret roofs in the year 1942 period, whereas, you say the devices were removed in the year 1943. Just how to make them match?


br
Mutsuo. S.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Here you can see also that the training aiming device in the heavy cruiser IJN Nachi is also removed. The picture(more and better pictures can be found on the page 24-25 on the Classic Warships Publishing book Warship Pictorial number 17) is from 20 September 1943.

She don�t have them on the turret on another reason,not becuz of the year-difference of 1942 vs 1943.
Maybe Oyodo 1944 one�s will be explaining part of the reason why,,


br
Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

What I said about 1943 is that "by 1943 MOST major Japanese warships had their training aiming devices removed". Some maybe had the modification in 1942 some in late 1943 or even early 1944.
Im not sure when each individual ship got the turret tops free of training aiming devices but by 1943 early 1944 there was none.

Anyway, I still insist that the object on the picture you point out is not a training aiming device, is too big to be one, maybe is a crew(s).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5znKeTCI28w
In this video IJN Ise had no training aiming devices.

Btw Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki is there any clear pictures of IJN Ise or IJN Hyuga under air attack during late 1944 or from the wrecks in the harbour during 1946 ? Or actually during the scrapping of both ships ? I never see a picture of IJN Haruna, IJN Ise and IJN Hyuga during scrapping after the war.

[Atma]

Btw in this 1944 picture IJN Ise dsent have a training aiming device too.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Btw in this 1944 picture IJN Ise dsent have a training aiming device too.

--------------------
??My humble answer is : Defintely Ise at the battle of the Cape of Engano shouldn�t have the device boxes on the turret roofs. The same is true of Hyuga in the second circular formation of Ozawa.
This is due to another reason as in other ships of the war-time period, accordingly not as year-determined.

?And again,the object on the nr.1 turret of Hyuga pr. 18.11.1943 is the very device box
,and the one on the 23.08.1943 Ise�s nr.1 turrret is a crew pr your own view.

??A new question is why a single crew is crauwling or sitting exactly on the place where the device box is to be fixed.
As one may notice,top of some covers to the device boxes is fairly high, most probably depending on size and type.

As we haven�t gone through all available materials concerning the device boxes yet, i�m waiting to respoond to your new questions about pics of other battleships under attack/ in wrecks....I do hope we may have some....

br
Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

Btw Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki , is this small range finder(the one in the red circle) correct for a 1944/1945 IJN Ise and IJN Huyga ? Did they have it till the 1945 ? Is actually the whole 1.350 IJN Ise pagoda from Fujimi correct for a 1944/1945 IJN Ise ?

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

What I said about 1943 is that "by 1943 MOST major Japanese warships had their training aiming devices removed". Some maybe had the modification in 1942 some in late 1943 or even early 1944.

Im not sure when each individual ship got the turret tops free of training aiming devices but by 1943 early 1944 there was none.

Anyway, I still insist that the object on the picture you point out is not a training aiming device, is too big to be one, maybe is a crew(s).
-----------------------


A) I can safely say it�s not because of the modification. Aiming/training devices are necessary devices in spite of which wartime year ships are operating in.

B)As I posted last night, Hyuga and Ise have the device boxes at least, and light cruiser Oyodo,too( will post her pics later on)

C)Sooo, the object on the 1943 Hybrid ISE must be a pure coincidence if it�s a crew.

pls. take look at this composite image; the height of the top of the device box for both sisterships is exactly the same.
I don�t see Ise�s is too high as compared with Hyuga�s .i.e.the same height

BR
Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

Well at least in the Heavy Cruisers I suspect the training aiming devices where removed maybe for weight compensations measurements.

[Atma]

And anyway those two pictures are from trails and such. Many add on equipment where used on trails that later where removed from ships when they where commissioned/recommissioned back at the fleet.