Calling all New Orleans-class (CA-32) fans

[Dick J]

I'm trying to find out the number of 40mm guns and radars carried by New Orleans, Minneapolis and San Francisco in late 1943/early 1944. I know that they probably had at least 16 and not more than 24.
Radars: air search SK, FC Mk3 and Mk4. Is that correct?

San Fran carried 16 40MM after her Feb '43 modernization (while she was in the MS-21 camo). That was when she lacked any bridge wings. Her next refit (Aug-Oct '44) added two more quads. New Orleans and Minneapolis had the 6 quad 40MM from the completion of their post-Guadalcanal repair/modernization. Radar included SK for the NO boat and the Minnie. San Fran's air search was an SC-3 until her Aug '44 overhaul, when she received an SK. All had SG surface search. During that time they also carried MK-4 on the MK-33 directors, and had MK-3 on the MK-31 main battery directors. (FC and MK-3 are "early" and "late" designations for the same set. The MK-4 was originally "FD".)

[maxs75]

Thank you very much Dick.
Sorry for the confusion, with "FC" I wanted to mean Fire Control, not a radar type.
Do you know if San Francisco had a bigger number of 20mm guns than the other two?

Max

[Dick J]

During the period that San Fran had the 16 40MM, she carried 20 20MM. Minneapolis had 26 20MM when she refitted with the 24 40MM. When San Fran upgraded to the 24 40MM, she upgraded to the same 26 20MM.

[maxs75]

Fine, thank you very much
Max

[DanaBellColors]

Hi MacGregor,

Nice artwork on the color schemes! Just a note, as new information has been coming available, about Tuscaloosa's 1939 plan view colors: the bands atop turrets 1 and 2 should be a bright Willow Green. At the beginning of the year (when the spot was introduced to Turret 3), Tuscaloosa wore a white spot as the second ship in CruDiv Seven. By October, San Francisco had become the second ship in the division; Tuscaloosa's postion at that time is unclear, but she could not have carried a lemon yellow spot - that color was reserved for a division's sixth ship, and CruDiv Seven had only five ships.

Hope this is useful!

Cheers,

Dana

[scottj]

Getting ready to build the Trumpeter 1/700 Astoria and noticed that the instructions show smoke generators. The Abbey book line drawings show her without and the photos taken in mid '42 seem to show her without them but it is hard to tell. Does anyone know for sure?

[jester63]

Ok guys, I am purchasing the Trumpeter 1/700 USS Quincy. I have read through this New Orleans thread pretty much completely. I have read the changes that the Trumpeter 1/700 USS Quincy needs to have made to make her appear as she did in 1942 at her demise. Now the only problem I have, is how to go about them. I have never done the scratchbuilding thing before, or the reshaping of superstructures and guntubs and such. Is there any chance you guys could help me out and maybe give me some advice on how to go about doing this? I know the forward turret needs to be moved back, and that there are changes to the superstructure that need to be made. Also the aft guntubs need to be a teardrop shape. I just don't know how to go about making the changes to the forward turret, and to the superstucture, and how to form the teardrop shaped guntubs. I read some measurements and stuff, but just was hoping you could show me how to use those measurements to make it look right.

The Quincy is a ship that I have wanted to build since I was a kid, and I just want to make it as accurate as I can. I hope that you can help me do just that! Any advice, tips, pictures, plans, or just anything that could be of help to me would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!! Thanks in advance!

[Dick J]

What I would suggest for the turret move is the carefully cut off the turret base first. Then carefully cut out the "planked" portion of the deck forward from the sides of the turret base to the end of the planking. (cut along the scribed plank lines.) Then cut out a larger section of the planked deck from the area under the bridge structure, being careful to stay inside the raised positioning lines. (You are going to cover that with the bridge anyway.) Then trim it to the right size and fit it in, being sure to go back far enough on the deck that the re-attached turret base will cover the back end of the graft. Once the glue has dried, you can rescribe the transition line between the planked and unplanked parts of the deck, and the two side scribe lines, and then glue down the turret base.

[Steve]

This kind of work in this scale needs some very sharp tools. If you don't have these in your tool kit I suggest a very fine razor saw, a special hobby chisel, exacto chisel blades and the old standard single edge razor blades. There are very good saws advertised on Sprue Brothers and umm-usa.com. As for reshaping or adding gun mount shielding best to get a supply of styrene strip stock if you are not using PE.

[jester63]

Thanks for the replies guys. Ok, I know now what to do for the turret, and the aft guntubs, now what about the forward superstructure? Can anyone tell me what I need to change, and how to go about doing it? Remember, I am completely new to the whole scratchbuilding thing. ANY help is GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Thanks in advance!!

[jester63]

I also just read the review on the Trumpeter Vincennes kit, and it says that the stacks are also incorrect. Is this the same on the Quincy kit? If so how do you go about building those too?

Does anyone know where I can find a review on the Quincy kit?

[Dick J]

The stacks on the last pair were slightly slimmer than on the earlier sisters. Quincy and Vincennes, as built, were almost identical to each other. (The main difference that I have been able to find is that Vincennes had a different main battery director than all the others in the class, while Quincy's matched that of the earlier 5.) However, Quincy and Vinnie started to diverge when the war mods began to be applied.

[jester63]

So does anyone have tips on how to make these stacks accurate? Also I am still not sure of what needs to be corrected on the forward superstructure. Can anyone help me?

[Dick J]

So does anyone have tips on how to make these stacks accurate? Also I am still not sure of what needs to be corrected on the forward superstructure. Can anyone help me?

I have not yet actually started my build of the Quincy, only dry-fitted the bridge to get ideas on what needs to be corrected. What I intend to do on the stacks is to glue them together with a solid plug in the bottom. Then I plan to use a razor saw and cut the stack vertically, then glue the front an back halves together. (The base might have to be cut off of one half and then re-attached with a spacer so the top and bottom of the stack still align after being brought back together.)

The bridge is a bit squished, vertically. If you also have a Minneapolis, Astoria, or '42 San Fran kit, you can see it if you compare the heights. The pilothouses of both should be at exactly the same height. Both ship's O-1 levels were the same height, and the communications bridges were one level above that. The conning tower was 1/2 level above that on both types because the CT on both had to see the bow over the top of turret II, placing the pilothouses at the same level atop that. (Comparing the height above the pilothouses of both will show that the Astoria, Minneapolis, San Fran bridges are a bit short above the pilothouse level - both the Quincy batch and the Astoria batch had the directors at the same height as well.) Astoria, Minneapolis and San Fran had that 1/2 level under the conning tower expanded for the full extent of the bridge, raising their comm bridges 1/2 level above those of the other 4 sisters. Quincy had her 20MM gallery around the front of the bridge at the level of the conning tower base. Vinnie had hers at the comm bridge level 1/2 level lower than Quincy's. Trumpy apparently mixed the features, resulting in the missing height below the pilothouses. (They tried to build one mold to do both ships and ended up screwing up both of them.) The 1.1 tubs on the bridge are too shallow (splinter screens are too short) and the tubs are slightly out of position. The "bird bath" around the rangefinder is too large and not properly shaped.

Now, if I didn't confuse you with all of that , it should get you started.

[Steve]

FYI all the kits share many of the same basic parts including such items as the stacks and both styles of 8" turrets. This is a cost savings measure which allows five sprues plus the hulls to be used in all the kits. The decks and superstructure sprues are ship specific but not necessarily accurate as you can see from the discussions in this thread.

[jester63]

Ok, I think I understand what you are saying. I am not familiar with the different levels of the superstructure and their name. I am kinda new to all this naval talk or what ever you want to call it. LOL I hate to ask, but can you explain it a little more to my very uneducated, noob to ships and their structure and such, mind? LOL I guess I just am still having a hard time understanding what needs to be done to the superstructure.

So am understanding you right that the 20mm gallery will need to be moved? If so what needs to be done? Does it need to be moved up or down? And if so how far?

I also was wondering if you could tell me how much would need to be taken off of the stacks to make them accurate?

Thanks in advance. Sorry for all of the questions. That is why I joined this forum though, hoping that I will become educated on this kinda stuff.

[Dick J]

The base for turret II is attached to a section of superstructure. That deck just behind the turret is the O-1 level. (You would step out of the turret on to the O-1 level.) The communications bridge is the next level up. It should be as tall as the structure under the O-1, but in this kit, it is way short. The 20MM gallery should be 1/2 level higher than the communications bridge. The navagation bridge (or pilothouse) is the level with the windows. It should be one full level above the 20MM gallery. Again, the kit is short on height at this level.

To describe this another way, when you piece your pilothouse together and put the next deck on top, notice the height of the gap between the top of the vertical "stub wall" (splinter screen) just outside of the "glassed" area and the underside of the 1.1" gun tub just above it. The O-1 level has extensions on either side for 5" guns, and these have splinter screens as well. The same size gap should exsist between the top of those splinter screens and the bottom of the comm bridge deck (the deck behind and slightly below the 20MM gallery). Also, note the splinter screens around the 20MM gallery. From the top of those screens to the bottom of the pilothouse deck, you should have the same distance gap as the one below the 1.1" gun tubs, which again, the kit has made too short. All in all, this kit has made the deck of the pilothouse level 1/2 to 3/4 of a full deck height too low by shorting each of the levels just a little.

Does this help?

[jester63]

Thanks Dick. I think I am understanding now. Is there any way to correct this? How would you go about it?

Also do you know how much you would take off of the stacks to make them accurate?

[Dick J]

The difference in the stack thickness was only a subtle one, and is not really well defined. I intend to take out only the thickness of the razorsaw blade, in 1/700. That should be enough to hint at a difference without going overboard. As for the shortness of the superstructure, you will need to add some sheet plastic to the bulkheads in order to make them taller. Of course, that will also involve trimming to match the bulkhead thickness, and a bit of putty and sanding. Short of some kind of total scratch-built replacement, this is your best shot.

[jester63]

Do you happen to know a measurement for the distance I would have to add? Or do I just use the guntubs height as you stated before to measure the distance?