The Ship Model Forum

Oh gods, the Greek's building again, and he's building big too... not surprising - Trojan Horse, The Athenian Corridor, all the vast projects they've built... yeah, when you build, you build Big, Nektarios.

Those Abukumas have some growth potential to them I think... to a mad scientist like me anyways. Sixteen harpoons in place of the ASROC, VLS, maybe replace the gun turret... it'd turn into a nice light FFG...

orb wrote:Thanks! Yes, those seem to be the same ships that I saw, but they don't seem to be available in Europe yet. Same goes for the Abukuma ships. If I do decide to get them at some point, I might have to order directly from HLJ then.

Nektarios wrote:Speaking about Abukuma class made me re-open their boxes and the LPD-4003 as well. Orb you have awaken the building monster inside me.

I have awaken the monster? Ah, well I can't say I'm sorry! Because, as always, looking forward to your builds

Now John has posted pics of JFK. I wanna restart building it. It looks like you wanna drive me crazy...

Nektarios wrote:

orb wrote:Thanks! Yes, those seem to be the same ships that I saw, but they don't seem to be available in Europe yet. Same goes for the Abukuma ships. If I do decide to get them at some point, I might have to order directly from HLJ then.
I have awaken the monster? Ah, well I can't say I'm sorry! Because, as always, looking forward to your builds

Now John has posted pics of JFK. I wanna restart building it. It looks like you wanna drive me crazy...

Ya gotta do it

Sauragnmon wrote:Oh gods, the Greek's building again, and he's building big too... not surprising - Trojan Horse, The Athenian Corridor, all the vast projects they've built... yeah, when you build, you build Big, Nektarios.

Those Abukumas have some growth potential to them I think... to a mad scientist like me anyways. Sixteen harpoons in place of the ASROC, VLS, maybe replace the gun turret... it'd turn into a nice light FFG...

Replacing Asroc and adding VLS kind of reminds me the upgrade i wanted to do on my CFA class. Harpoons on the stern like in Ticos CIWS on a raised deckhouse like in the Australian CFAs, ASROC replaced by a 16-cell VLS and Mk-68 being substituted by Mk-86.

Well the congress didn t fund it considering CFAs were too old and they ended in the mothball fleet and eventually to the scrapyard.

I'd actually consider doing something to replace the eight Harpoons on the back of the structure of the Abukumas... that and I'd have to do something to change the CIWS layout for better coverage. Maybe one fore one aft kind of idea... the VLS would be up front in that nice flat section of deck.

Nektarios wrote: Now John has posted pics of JFK. I wanna restart building it. It looks like you wanna drive me crazy...

I agree with John, you definitely gotta do it

Nektarios, what for LHD is that?
What is the name?
And can u show me the box?
Bcs i quess it looks like the johan de witt and rotterdam from dutch navy.
And if it does, im sure gonna buy it and make it johan ore rotterdam..
Mitch

mitchell300 wrote:Nektarios, what for LHD is that?
What is the name?
And can u show me the box?
Bcs i quess it looks like the johan de witt and rotterdam from dutch navy.
And if it does, im sure gonna buy it and make it johan ore rotterdam..
Mitch

The kit is LST-4001 Ohsumi from Tamiya

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.p ... t-id=31003

JMSDF has currently 9 DDGs in commision. They belong to 4 different classes.
The first AAW ship (single ship of the class) in the JMSDF was DDG-163 Amatsukaze which was retired in the mid-1990s. I do not have this kit but i intend to build it in the future.
DDG-170 is the sole survivor of the second class of postwar DDGs it serves now as the fleet flagship and is homeported at Yokosuka. DDG-168 and DDG-169 its sisterships were retired once the Atago class was commissioned.
DDG-168 served as fleet flagship for almost a decade and had one of its Mk.42s removed and an extra superstructure added in its place.

DDG-171 is the first ship of the third postwar class of AAW destroyers of the JMSDF. It has the same weaponry with the previous class but on a larger hull. It is serving with the fourth escort flotilla and is homeported at Kure.

DDG-172 belongs to the 1st escort flotilla and is homeported at Yokosuka. Both ships will be replace by Atagos or improved versions of Atago class probably around the middle of the next decade.

I built DDG-171 and DDG-172 from the High Mold resin kits that were available in 2000-2001 and their quality was not as good as the plastic ones that were released a couple of years ago. If i had known that they would be released in plastic then i would have paid much less and have two better quality models of these beautiful ships.

I have to admit, I like the layout of the JMSDF DDG's a lot better than some of the USN DDG's, they just seem to look... I dunno, more traditional in some ways. The Hatakaze's I question how far back their CIWS position is, in truth, and would consider one with a dedicated forward field of fire if I modified them. Seeing them in model format, gives me a perspective on thoughts for how to modify both of the classes:

Sawakaze - replace Tartar and ASROC launchers with VLS, replace gun turrets and CIWS, upgrade sensor suite potentially, consider replacing the two stacks with one larger centralized stack between torpedo launchers.

Hatakaze - both guns forward in Shirane style layout. Replace aft turret position with VLS, same with ASROC, again replace gun turrets and CIWS, potentially sensor suite as well.

That said, the models look really beautiful, Nektarios. They're really nice ships, and you did a great job on the builds. I can't help but tinker with anything I see in my head, I'm a horrible heretic, I know. The CIWS would be replaced with a new concept I have in mind, based off the old triple-25mm turrets, with a new chaingun mount and some sensors on them, I figure it would give them a unique appearance, as would an automated twin 5" turret based off the shielded 5" turrets, modified with a bustle and such for the autoloading mechanisms, somewhat like a hybrid of the AK-130 and the Otos that they have now.

Sauragnmon wrote:I have to admit, I like the layout of the JMSDF DDG's a lot better than some of the USN DDG's, they just seem to look... I dunno, more traditional in some ways. The Hatakaze's I question how far back their CIWS position is, in truth, and would consider one with a dedicated forward field of fire if I modified them. Seeing them in model format, gives me a perspective on thoughts for how to modify both of the classes:

Sawakaze - replace Tartar and ASROC launchers with VLS, replace gun turrets and CIWS, upgrade sensor suite potentially, consider replacing the two stacks with one larger centralized stack between torpedo launchers.

Hatakaze - both guns forward in Shirane style layout. Replace aft turret position with VLS, same with ASROC, again replace gun turrets and CIWS, potentially sensor suite as well.

That said, the models look really beautiful, Nektarios. They're really nice ships, and you did a great job on the builds. I can't help but tinker with anything I see in my head, I'm a horrible heretic, I know. The CIWS would be replaced with a new concept I have in mind, based off the old triple-25mm turrets, with a new chaingun mount and some sensors on them, I figure it would give them a unique appearance, as would an automated twin 5" turret based off the shielded 5" turrets, modified with a bustle and such for the autoloading mechanisms, somewhat like a hybrid of the AK-130 and the Otos that they have now.

Thanks Simon for your comments. By the way did you get what i sent you???

Your whif ideas are mostly ingenious and sometimes crazy. I ve had several of those crazy modernisation ideas too. I totally agree with you. Those JMSDF ships look great and definitely more traditional than the USN warships. I ll post more JMSDF pics later.

Yes, very nice ships indeed, Nektarios I'm afraid you might have infected me with the JMSDF fever as well. I might have to build one of their ships sooner than I had planned

Yes, Nektarios, I did get the stack tops for the Burkes - they'll help me when I build a stack that big, and in the mean time they'll also help me pattern stack tops for bigger stacks as well, now that I have sheet styrene on hand and can do things like that.

I'm sure the JMSDF likely would keep their DDGs in service as they aren't that old, if they weren't worried about looking too big and scaring the neighbours, which would likely indeed mean some modernization plans, like adding information datalinks or such so that they can operate in conjunction with the AEGIS ships to form an effective defensive position. I'd probably have the DDGs set up primarily for AAW/ASW with the AEGIS DDGs performing things like TMD. A buddy and I discussed the Sea Sparrow mounts on the Shirane and one of two ideas was either an upgraded form of a navalized AAM, like using the AMRAAM instead of the Sparrow, which was his idea (Distant Thunder please stand up), or the other which was mine, of taking two of the large RAM boxes, mounting them on either side of the Sea Sparrow pedestal, and then putting the SeaRAM sensor suite on top of the pedestal, giving it a large stockpile of RAM missiles and its own targetting suite so it operates independant of the ship's directors. I do just like the JMSDF ships, they'd look great with my Zipang Fleet, when I start on that project. Fortunately I won't need a whack of Mk 41's for those, as I have a sheet of the Evergreen 1/16" square tile, which will work just fine for a non-USN VLS setup.

Sauragnmon wrote:I'm sure the JMSDF likely would keep their DDGs in service as they aren't that old, if they weren't worried about looking too big and scaring the neighbours, which would likely indeed mean some modernization plans, like adding information datalinks or such so that they can operate in conjunction with the AEGIS ships to form an effective defensive position. I'd probably have the DDGs set up primarily for AAW/ASW with the AEGIS DDGs performing things like TMD. A buddy and I discussed the Sea Sparrow mounts on the Shirane and one of two ideas was either an upgraded form of a navalized AAM, like using the AMRAAM instead of the Sparrow, which was his idea (Distant Thunder please stand up), or the other which was mine, of taking two of the large RAM boxes, mounting them on either side of the Sea Sparrow pedestal, and then putting the SeaRAM sensor suite on top of the pedestal, giving it a large stockpile of RAM missiles and its own targetting suite so it operates independant of the ship's directors. I do just like the JMSDF ships, they'd look great with my Zipang Fleet, when I start on that project. Fortunately I won't need a whack of Mk 41's for those, as I have a sheet of the Evergreen 1/16" square tile, which will work just fine for a non-USN VLS setup.

The JMSDF doesn t keep its ships for mor ethan 30 years like the USN or European navies do. They are usually retired when they reach 30 years in service. The two Shimakaze class ships will reach 30 years of service at around 2015. remember that they will probably be the last Mk-13 armed AAW ships in the world in service by then. I don t know if there will be Standard missiles that can be launched from these launchers available in 2015 since they re out of production for many years. even OHP in the USN didn t carry SM-1 but SM-2s before the Mk-13 was removed.
Submarines in the JMSDF last even less. They are replaced at around 20 years of service.
Your idea for a navalised SAM is good but there is already ESSM which can be launched from MK-29 launchers. The other idea about modifying themk-29 launcher for RAM reminds me of the USN plan two install 5 RAM missiles in 2 cells of the Mk-29 that would give the launcher 20 RAMs. Not bad at all.
I think that there were plans in the mid 80s to modify Mk-13 launchers to carry 2 RAMs in place of each of its SM-1s and even there were more crazy plans to mount RAMs on the sides of 5 inch guns.

Yeah, that could be potentially because of either constant modernization on the part of the JMSDF, or stringent environmental considerations (consider the regulations they have on cars over there), or just because they don't want to seem too big and scare the neighbours as I said.

As to the Mk-13, this is Japan, they could well just build a new missile that would double up between the Mk13 and the Mk41 so as to keep the Mk13's in operation, without losing the functionality of the missile the second the Mk13-armed ships are retired. Alternately, they could always retrofit with Mk41 in place of the Mk13. It wouldn't be too hard to envision a modified SM-2ER style missile with an extended booster for the Mk13 launcher in place of the SM-1 missiles.

Yeah, I figured the ESSM already exists, I wasn't fully aware it could use the Mk29 launchers though, which makes an interesting point. As to the RAM concept, that wouldn't be too bad, but my concept was to use two of the 21-cell RAM boxes (I have the JAG RAM launchers I can take a pattern from, laminate some sheet to get a block in that size and then sand/shave into the angles) and mounting them on the pedestal mount directly. As to the sensor suite, it isn't too far removed from the CIWS, and since I'll be going my own way in that regard, with the CIWS, I can just chop the top off an R2D2, put that in place, and shabang, forty two RAM missiles in two launchers with an independant targetting suite. As to RAM on the Mk13, that's kinda not a good idea to my perspective, but the RAM on the 5" turret sides is interesting. More to that point, I'd put a few small RAM launchers on the sides of a Goalkeeper, kinda like how the Chinese land-based version of their Type 730 can have a few missiles on either side. I think That would be a rather effective concept in all truth.

orb wrote:Yes, very nice ships indeed, Nektarios I'm afraid you might have infected me with the JMSDF fever as well. I might have to build one of their ships sooner than I had planned

I m happy that i infected you.

I intend to cause a pandemia. So here is some more stuff.

DDG-173 is the first ship of the fourth class of JMSDF AAW warships. This was a huge step for the JMSDF. Its previous ships had the same main armament with the CFA class a late 50s design. This ship was had the most advanced sensors and weapons in the world at the time it was built. The class is a modified Arleigh Burke design with some enhancements. The program was delayed due to technical difficulties and suffered from cost overruns.

DDG-173 serves with the 1st escort flotilla and is homeported at Yokosuka.

DDG-174 is the second ship of the Kongu class it belongs to the 4th escort flotilla and is homeported at Kure.

Some photos of DDG-175 and DDG-176 i ve posted some of these before.
DDG-175 belongs to the 3rd escort flotilla and is homeported at Maizuru.
DDG-176 belongs to the 2nd escort flotilla and is homeported at Sasebo.