Hi guys, thanks for the explanation about the colour of the non-skid matting. It makes sense it got dirty and rusty over time, I�ll improve on that next time
Thanks also for the links to the LIFE photo collections, in fact I�ve seen those in the past, unfortunately they are still the same - impossible to search by any meaningful tags, ship or unit names etc.etc. It�s a pity they have not opened it for some kind of "social tagging" as I�m sure there would be many people voluntarily adding useful search terms to those invaluable photos.
From the Life.com site, photograph collection, google arts and culture section, type in Pacific Fleet and there are about a hundred excellent photos from Fleet Problem XXI of 1940 by Carl Mydans.
Just received the 1/350 Iron Shipwrights Houston. This is by far the best ISW kit I've seen. The plan is build it as Chicago 1936 when she was in Portland.
maccrage wrote:Just received the 1/350 Iron Shipwrights Houston. This is by far the best ISW kit I've seen. The plan is build it as Chicago 1936 when she was in Portland.
I think ISW picked up a lot of the YMW masters when FTH changed hands, so they may be the old BWN patterns.
When I built the BWN Houston, it was missing the step on the deck, forward of the rear tripod leg on the forward mast. Is that still the case? http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html (13th image down) Nice kit otherwise.
maccrage wrote:Just received the 1/350 Iron Shipwrights Houston. This is by far the best ISW kit I've seen. The plan is build it as Chicago 1936 when she was in Portland.
I think ISW picked up a lot of the YMW masters when FTH changed hands, so they may be the old BWN patterns.
When I built the BWN Houston, it was missing the step on the deck, forward of the rear tripod leg on the forward mast. Is that still the case? http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html (13th image down) Nice kit otherwise.
Small caveat: the LIFE photos of NORTHAMPTON are extremely valuable historically, but be advised that a few of the images have reversed negatives; e.g., the band playing in front of the hangar.
An USNI E-Mail yesterday had a story about the CO of USS HOUSTON. There was a photo taken of HOUSTON from USS MARBLEHEAD in port, reportedly dated in early 1942 after turret #3 was disabled. I do not recall seeing this view before and I didn't go through this thread to see if it had already been posted. No credit was given for the source of the photo. But, since the photographer was onboard USS MARBLEHEAD, the photo likely came from either the ship's photographer or a crewman (officer?) and may not have been an "official" USN photo turned in.
The photo isn't very large file wise and only shows a relatively small part of the ship, but several things are interesting. There has been debate about what camo/paint she was painted at the time of her loss. There is documentation that the Asiatic Fleet was applying a locally made paint called CAVITE BLUE. This paint was noted as not wearing well. In this image I notice that the paint on the hull is streaking or worn off in an irregular way and it looks that a darker paint was applied to the top of turret #3 that is also fading. Also, note the "stains" left on the top of turret #3 where life rafts had been located.
It sure would be nice if there were other photos taken at the same time. I know of one photo taken onboard USS MARBLEHEAD in port after she received battle damage at NARA. But, this photo wasn't with the attached photo.
I'm still new here, so hello to all. Something interesting I noticed in this picture is that the barrels of both the 8 and 5 inch guns seem to have a wavy dark-light camouflage design on them. I could be wrong about this, but that seems like an intentional pattern, especially because the USS Parrott is sporting a similar design wavy on her torpedo tubes during her refit in July 1942. I've never seen that on any other USN ships that I'm aware of, so that might be an interesting Asiatic fleet thing. If this is true, the wavy pattern of the dark-light colors on the turret sides would also seem intentional and not just wear
Also, this could be completely wrong, but is that circle on the 8 inch turret top weathering in the paint from a life raft which was discarded as a part of damage control efforts as a result of her bombing, or a '0' from a 30 on her turret? I'm guessing it is the former, however, I figured I'd throw it out there, as I know some USN cruisers and BBs carried turret numbers into 1942
That great (altho' grim) photo of CA-30 had existed for many years in a crude high-contrast print that looked like a 5th generation copy, or something. I had purchased a hardcopy of it ~25 years ago or so. This excellent clear image was rediscovered by the naval historian Robt Stern in CL-12 files at the Natl archives in Wash. about 7-8 yrs ago.
For those who are unaware of the story, that 250kg IJN bomb nicked an arm on the port side of her aft AA 'birdbath' then hit the tripod mainmast & tore through it, passing through the searchlight platform where it bisected an unfortunate, and prone, sailor taking cover there before clipping the aft radio room & came out to explode just above the deck next to Turret 3 which was swung out to observe for any potential torpedo bombers...Hot fragments pierced the thin metal side of the gunhouse and ignited the 8" powder bags...
A large steel plate was located later in Tjilatjap and brought to the ship--by sheer manual labor--and welded into place over the sizeable hole in the deck.
There are many other photos of the damaged CL-12 from the Tjilatjap series available...not sure where I have seen them. Maybe on fold3.com?
I also have seen an unpublished photo of the damaged aft deck/stern of CL-12 at Tjilatjap, (not the famous one w/her Dutch RNN liaison officer atop the gunhouse) but have no idea where it came from...
More photos do exist of CA-30 after she was repainted at Cavite, w/some of the best of them showing her at Darwin at the time of the mid-Feb '42 Timor Relief Convoy operation.
There is also a very poor quality image taken of her from another ship in that convoy that I have seen, but it is pretty rough.
RE those paintjob observations: I don't believe this was paint you're seeing atop the gun barrels, and the four-piper paint on the torpedo tubes was not from the Asiatic Fleet period, AFAIK, but later on.
I would be very interested in seeing the picture of USS Marblehead you are referring to, but I think that would probably need to go in the Omaha class thread. Also you are correct about Fold.3 having the rest of the pictures from Marblehead's damage report.
As for the gun barrel colors, if that is not a wavy paint job, then what would it be? On the 8 inch guns at least the dark color appears to be the exact same color as the paint on the turret top. That looks like paint to me (I could be completely wrong about this though, I just don't currently see what else that could be). You're definitely correct the Parrott photo is not from the Asiatic Fleet period, sorry if I was not sufficiently clear about that. My thought was she may have already had that wavy design from the Asiatic fleet period and merely retained it (That is just speculation though).
Here's a better zoom of the areas in question
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Last edited by GregoryC on Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
The larger caliber gun barrels were painted deck gray on top and haze gray on the bottom. This was after the decision to paint the lovely teak decks deck gray. I suppose the Captain or crew - likely the Bosun Mates - could personalize the design and make it a bit wavy along the edges if they wanted to. It would be easier to paint than a straight line.
I have attached a photo of the USS Oklahoma City CL-91 late in the war showing the two tone gun barrels.
Phil
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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle
The 12" rifles on Alaska were painted with a regular and intentional wavy pattern with deck gray on the top and matching gray to the superstructure in her deployment to the Pacific.
1) The battered Marbly came in to Tjilatjap around 1500 hrs that day (when this pic was taken), after CA-30 had already buried her own dead that morning. On Houston it was recorded that they had had some rainfall, too, and that definitely shows in the photo also...
2) I do believe those shadows atop the gunhouse are from the destroyed life-rafts, and not from any kind of official markings. Houston didn't have a number painted on her turrets AFAIK, but did still carry the Fleet Problem markings on them in April 1939 when she made her third & final visit to her namesake city.
3) No official or anecdotal evidence of CA-30 painting herself on any meaningful scale once the war started. But, whatever she had been painted with just before the war--as in her final yard time (Nov. 1941 at NYd Cavite)--it would have involved some application of the problematic, so-called 'Cavite Blue'.
That looks like paint on the aft turret and barrels to me.
Looking at this picture, she was painted in something before her demise:
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Right, she was painted...prior to the war. During the war? Not too much evidence of that at all.
Wavy lines of paint on her gun barrels? Not quite convinced yet.
But, I never say never; it's not entirely impossible, and an energetic researcher might still turn up something solid.
There were a number of early scratch-built models of CA-30 (long before kits; the original builder's model had an especially remarkable history in its own right), and many survivors saw them over the years. I was lucky enough to be with some of them on a few of those occasions, and never heard anybody say, "You know that's a beautiful model, but doggonit they forgot the wavy lines on the 8"gun barrels!"
This morning, I did locate one CA-30 survivor's interview in which he recalled painting the ship, "...including the deck, just before the war--darker gray..."
In fact, he provided the original photo below to the Navy many years ago.
And I'm tossing in an image of LANGLEY survivors on WHIPPLE (Feb 27, '42) which shows that the AF four-pipers didn't have wavy lines on their tubes...but, what is more intriguing is that it appears the funnel is deliberately half-painted (?)
Had not been aware of that before, and I do not know what to make of it...
