The Ship Model Forum

Nektarios, have you tried shipspotting.com? They have very hi-res pics and I'd be very surprised if they didn't have any photos of the Mashu class. Even if they don't it's a great resource for modern Naval and civil ships.

Cadman wrote:

mitchell300 wrote:A- a-a-a-a-a-admin!!!
*runs*

Big brother is watching you.

STALKER!
U do watch when im in the shower?
I hope u dont
nice progress nektarios
I hope to see them whit their escorts soon!
Mitch

Avery Boyer wrote:Nektarios, have you tried shipspotting.com? They have very hi-res pics and I'd be very surprised if they didn't have any photos of the Mashu class. Even if they don't it's a great resource for modern Naval and civil ships.

Avery, i have tried it but no luck. Anyway thank you for the suggestion.

Nektarios, looking good so far! I'm really looking forward to seeing those Mashus

Avery, that's a good site, I haven't heard of it until now...thanks for posting that link!

Mitch, as requested...some pictures coming up

orb wrote:Nektarios, looking good so far! I'm really looking forward to seeing those Mashus

Thank you Heiko, they are magnificent ships. the more i see them the more i fall in love with them.

orb wrote:Mitch, as requested...some pictures coming up

I want some pics too.

Here now some pictures. I'm using the Revell USS Boxer kit and it's obvious, that they designed it without thinking about the fact that someone might want to also build the well deck. It's either the hangar or the well deck. Once the hangar is in place its "floor" becomes the "ceiling" of the well deck. The problem here is it's almost a centimeter too low.

What you see in the pictures is my attempt to find a compromise since I want to depict both the well deck and the hangar. I cut off the edge of the hangar and added a "slanted" piece which I thought would give the impression of the ceiling being higher. It's a poor solution but I didn't have any better idea. Then after scratchbuilding and adding the missing "walls" of the well deck (before there was just...nothing) I found pics which show that there is also a walkway on both sides. This would be impossible to add because the rest of the ceiling is still too low. So yesterday I could think of only one solution...so I cut the hangar into two pieces and simply won't show the aft part. I can show the front part and work on an actual well deck. I also remodelled the ramp which I got wrong, too.
So Finally, today, I ran to my hobbyshop and talked to them about illuminating the hangar. Long story short, I came home with a couple of micro bulbs, a transformer and cables and will now try to somehow illuminate both the hangar and well deck. I hope that goes ok since I have never done anything like it before. But this also gives me a reason to actually detail the well deck since you will hopefully then be able to see something

But, with the new semester just having started and a lot of stuff to study, this project could take a long time. Ok, sorry for my ramblings...the pictures now...





By the way, any further ideas, tips or how-tos...or any other comments are greatly appreciated!

orb wrote:Here now some pictures. I'm using the Revell USS Boxer kit and it's obvious, that they designed it without thinking about the fact that someone might want to also build the well deck. It's either the hangar or the well deck. Once the hangar is in place its "floor" becomes the "ceiling" of the well deck. The problem here is it's almost a centimeter too low.

I think you will find the LHA-4 kit much better. It gives you the possibility to have a hangar and a welldeck without any compromises.

orb wrote:What you see in the pictures is my attempt to find a compromise since I want to depict both the well deck and the hangar. I cut off the edge of the hangar and added a "slanted" piece which I thought would give the impression of the ceiling being higher. It's a poor solution but I didn't have any better idea. Then after scratchbuilding and adding the missing "walls" of the well deck (before there was just...nothing) I found pics which show that there is also a walkway on both sides. This would be impossible to add because the rest of the ceiling is still too low. So yesterday I could think of only one solution...so I cut the hangar into two pieces and simply won't show the aft part. I can show the front part and work on an actual well deck. I also remodelled the ramp which I got wrong, too.

I added a well deck on one of my LHDs. I put inside the well deck 2 LCACs. I added no lights though. I can understand your problem. Tell me please what are the dimensions of the well deck??? If you do not show the aft part of the hangar deck you will close the aft hangar door???

orb wrote:So Finally, today, I ran to my hobbyshop and talked to them about illuminating the hangar. Long story short, I came home with a couple of micro bulbs, a transformer and cables and will now try to somehow illuminate both the hangar and well deck. I hope that goes ok since I have never done anything like it before. But this also gives me a reason to actually detail the well deck since you will hopefully then be able to see something

I ll take some photos of my well deck and show you what i ve done. I never intended to make a superdetailed well deck. I just wanted to put inside a coupls of LCACs.

Nektarios, I didn't use any real dimensions for reference because I couldn't find any for the well deck, so it was just an estimate. It's 6.5cm to the ramp. When I did some more research I found out that 3 LCACs are supposed to fit in there (somehow I was thinking 2 like in the LHAs), so the deck is about 1/3 too short. Just when I was about to lengthen it I realized that I would once again run into the same hangar floor/ceiling problem. So I just left it at that length and also, if the ramp is too far in... no use detailing the well deck, because I doubt you'd be able to see anything anyway...

Yes, I'll just close the aft hangar door. I usually display my models with the port side facing to the front so you won't see much of the hangar from the starboard side anyway. Also there's the question where to hide the cables...

One more question that just came up. What color of light is used at what occasion? I saw photos which shows the deck lit up in green during night and dusk operations. Another photo showed it in reddish/dark orange. The light in the helo hangar should just be plain white?

It would be great to see what you made out of the missing welldeck... did you also work on the hangar? Questions and more questions

orb wrote:Nektarios, I didn't use any real dimensions for reference because I couldn't find any for the well deck, so it was just an estimate. It's 6.5cm to the ramp. When I did some more research I found out that 3 LCACs are supposed to fit in there (somehow I was thinking 2 like in the LHAs), so the deck is about 1/3 too short. Just when I was about to lengthen it I realized that I would once again run into the same hangar floor/ceiling problem. So I just left it at that length and also, if the ramp is too far in... no use detailing the well deck, because I doubt you'd be able to see anything anyway...

Heiko the LHA can take only one LCAC. I asked you since i m thinking to send you two LCACs. One with inflated skirt and one deflated loading tanks or trucks. Maybe some smaller landing craft too. I will try to find some other stuff too for you so it is a good thing that it will take time to finish this project.

orb wrote:One more question that just came up. What color of light is used at what occasion? I saw photos which shows the deck lit up in green during night and dusk operations. Another photo showed it in reddish/dark orange. The light in the helo hangar should just be plain white?

It would be great to see what you made out of the missing welldeck... did you also work on the hangar? Questions and more questions

I don t know about the colours in the hangar and welldecks but i'll try to find the answer.

No i didn t work on the hangar. This was an old build when i didn t give much attention to hangars of LHAs/LHDs

Hey Orb, just a bounced idea here, you might find LED's (Light Emitting Diodes) to be a suitable idea for your lighting situation - they're low heat, low drain, good lighting solutions - to the point there are even houses these days being run by them, and they have a very good service life on them. Best of all, they can be quite cost effective, and rather simple to wire into place.

Sauragnmon wrote:Hey Orb, just a bounced idea here, you might find LED's (Light Emitting Diodes) to be a suitable idea for your lighting situation - they're low heat, low drain, good lighting solutions - to the point there are even houses these days being run by them, and they have a very good service life on them. Best of all, they can be quite cost effective, and rather simple to wire into place.

Putting lights into the hangar bay and well deck opens a big discussion. If you want to look your model to look as realistic as possible then you should not put lights. Have a look at these two photos:

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 2A-026.jpg

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 0A-251.jpg

There are very few things one can see inside the well deck area. I would choose to put lights because it would look better to my eyes even though it would not look correct.

I think it is very nice to have LEDs for two reasons:
1) Your work is visible
2) In the dark it looks fantastic:


I will use LEDs in my CVN (If I can figure out the electronics ) , but Nektarios is right it has to be very subtle to look right. I think I will put some semi transparent paper in front of the LEDs to diffuse the light and make it less agressive. The worst thing that can happen in my opinion is for the LEDs to be directly visible. That's horrible But it's difficult to find a place to hide them from all angles (I tried and I actually only found one such place in a 1/700 CVN hangar

As for the colour do it as it is in reality (In a CVN case, it looks white on this picture but it looks orange in other pictures, I guess they have two different lighting systems for various situations)

So the best suggestion is, you might want to position the LED's so they simply aren't visible from the viewing angle - namely against the wall that is behind the viewer's perspective - port side hangar wall, aft side well deck wall.

Generally, I would believe the differences between Red and Green lighting would depend on what is happening - Red filtered light is simply standard night lighting I would surmise - the military tends to use red filters on the flashlights, as red's the lowest intensity on the eyes. Green by contrast is standardly used in conjunction with night vision systems, as most active NV systems have a green tint, the green light helps illuminate and add contrast - convenient since the human eye can discriminate the most shades of green compared to any other colour.

Hope I've been helpful.

arnobiz wrote:I think it is very nice to have LEDs for two reasons:
1) Your work is visible
2) In the dark it looks fantastic
I will use LEDs in my CVN (If I can figure out the electronics ) , but Nektarios is right it has to be very subtle to look right. I think I will put some semi transparent paper in front of the LEDs to diffuse the light and make it less agressive. The worst thing that can happen in my opinion is for the LEDs to be directly visible. That's horrible But it's difficult to find a place to hide them from all angles (I tried and I actually only found one such place in a 1/700 CVN hangar

As for the colour do it as it is in reality (In a CVN case, it looks white on this picture but it looks orange in other pictures, I guess they have two different lighting systems for various situations)

Arnaud i will also use LED in some carriers i will build. These will be dioramas like John, Heiko and Carl are building. I will start building some ships in harbour (it will be easier) and then i ll progress with carrier dioramas while underway.

I agree with what you say. A hangar bay with LEDs will look great.

Maybe a good idea for hiding the LEDs is placing them behind some aircraft???
Is this doable???

Haven t tried it.

Sauragnmon wrote:Generally, I would believe the differences between Red and Green lighting would depend on what is happening - Red filtered light is simply standard night lighting I would surmise - the military tends to use red filters on the flashlights, as red's the lowest intensity on the eyes. Green by contrast is standardly used in conjunction with night vision systems, as most active NV systems have a green tint, the green light helps illuminate and add contrast - convenient since the human eye can discriminate the most shades of green compared to any other colour.

Hope I've been helpful.

Thank you Simon that was quite enlightening for me.

Nektarios wrote:Maybe a good idea for hiding the LEDs is placing them behind some aircraft???
Is this doable???

Yes sure, behind an A-380
I'm afraid most LEDs would be too big and either would not be hidden or would give a non-natural light. Let me know if you try it though, it would be fantastic if it worked!

arnobiz wrote:

Nektarios wrote:Maybe a good idea for hiding the LEDs is placing them behind some aircraft???
Is this doable???

Yes sure, behind an A-380
I'm afraid most LEDs would be too big and either would not be hidden or would give a non-natural light. Let me know if you try it though, it would be fantastic if it worked!

When the time comes i m sure i will find some kind of solution and then i ll let everyone know what it is. If i dont find a solution and the LEDs are visible through the hangar openings maybe i wont use lights at all.

Nektarios wrote:When the time comes i m sure i will find some kind of solution and then i ll let everyone know what it is. If i dont find a solution and the LEDs are visible through the hangar openings maybe i wont use lights at all.

I'll do the same, probably in a month

arnobiz wrote:I'll do the same, probably in a month

That s good for me i ll do this later than you so i ll know what you came up with.

Alternately, if you can work it, set up a roof in your hangar bay, under the strut reinforcements of your flight deck. If you did that, and used, say, aluminum foil on the inside to form a reflector surface, under the flight deck to help disperse the light, and then use a thin layer of paper along the sheet that will be your roof, which has been pre-cut with holes in it to allow the light to move through these points at a diffuse perspective. That way you can maximize the output of a few LED's without the direct or unnatural light effect.

Not a problem on the use of colour-filtered lighting, Nektarios - I know the Canadian Forces also use a blue filter for the purposes of identifying nationality up close and personal on camouflaged insignia patches - the CF's green on green maple leaf flags are made so that with a blue light on them they're actually red and white.

As to the wiring of an LED, it's relatively simple in layout if you have straight up off the shelf LED's - your long pin is the positive terminal. Aside from that, it would be wise to wire them in parallel so that there is an independant lead from the switch to each LED and back to the terminal, as it would maximize the lighting of those LED's compared to a serial link where you run one wire to all the LED's in sequence, dimming them all with each additional LED on the link.