Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[Cliffy B]

Are those the recoil slides sitting atop Turret 2? They are removable apparently? What's with the left gun of T2 being out further than the other two?

[SpyderDan]

Here in another I found in my personal reference collection, same source and time period:

[Fliger747]

The bucklers, bloomer attachments are parallel without a step, but one can seethe small step. Looks as if the cylinders are for attaching the bucklers and not a structural part of the mounting.

Interesting!

T

[BB62vet]

SpyderDan's 2nd photo appears to show a straight outer edge to the turret face opening, without and indentation, etc.

He is also correct in that Dick Landgraff would be the one to ask regarding this question.

Hank

[SpyderDan]

The bucklers, bloomer attachments are parallel without a step, but one can seethe small step. Looks as if the cylinders are for attaching the bucklers and not a structural part of the mounting.

Interesting!

T

That does appear to be the case, although there are numerous photos where they can be seen on the guns with no bucklers present. The barrels clearly recoil inside these sleeves, which is why the forward buckler attachment rings fit on these.

Here is a shot from Navsource of Iowa being fitted out in late 1942. You can see these sleeves present, but without the buckler attachment ring, prior to installation of the forward armor plate:



-edited to re-host photo

[SpyderDan]

Here is another from Navsource, January 1951 re-activation of Wisconsin.

[RandyM]

Chuck -> re: midship director supports. I spent a good deal of time researching this area, and James provided some excellent source material. This is a quickie render (work and family have me turning cartwheels at the moment) with some hurried spot lighting. The forward/outboard tub support is not correctly attached to the structure, but everything else should be very close. Of interest to me are the "x-supports" directly beneath the director: they actually "tilt" outboard at the top. If you start at the base of the "X" - everything is coplanar with the side structure. Moving upward along the sides, you can see a knuckle moving outboard near the top - and again the top of the "X" is coplanar with the sides.

I'll try to do a second render this evening looking aft from a more centerline perspective. There are two very large longitudinal girders just beneath the director: for some reason there are lightening holes in the aft portion but not forward: I guess because that tub carries a greater load than does the after one.

Tom -> re: rangefinders. Good eye. Those pieces were done while I was still learning SW, and without any plans. Since then I have accumulated far more/better photographic "evidence" - I just haven't gotten 'round to cleaning them up.

It's actually fairly interesting to see the progression from "early parts" to later parts - there are a gazillion different ways to achieve a given effect in SW, and some of them result in a part with a large number of sub-components, are very difficult to edit, etc., while a more sophisticated understanding yields more elegant results. All in all it (creating this 3d model) has been a very worthwhile undertaking. And it's only perhaps 60-65% complete and I'm over a year in.

[RandyM]

Here's the second perspective, from forward looking aft. X-supports at red arrow.

[BB62vet]

Here is a picture of NEW JERSEY's Turrets 1 & 2 in Philly in 1967 when they opened up the protective coverings. The center gun on Turret one clearly shows a straight opening on the exterior of the turret face. There is a slight inlet behind the turret face just about centerline with the gun barrel.

Chuck - I believe Randy has covered your Mk. 37 F.C. Director Base question.

I can still provide a picture of the turret rangefinders, etc. with dimensions, if necessary.

[chuck]

Randy:

Thanks for the info on the x-brace. I can confirm it is tilted on the iowa:



Unfortunately it is too late for me to make the correction. In any case, on the trumpeter kit, the entire outboard face if the mk-37 director support is positioned slightly too far outboard compare to the director, or rather the mk-37director is positioned slightly too far inboard compared to the superstructure, so the director can't train without the range finders hitting the superstructure. I didn't notice it in time.

I also have a question regarding the supports beneath the searchlight tub right behind the mk-37 director support. There are definitely some diagonal tubular beam that supports this tub in a manner similar to how the 40mm director in front of the mk-37 director support. But I can not discern whether the tubular beam connects to the mk-37 director support through the level 4 wing cat walks behind the support, or above the catwalks.

[RandyM]

As you can see in the first image above, I have not yet modeled the searchlight maintenance platforms in this area. The platform itself is there, but just floating in space. There are similar platforms beneath the 36-inch searchlights mounted on the aft stack. They are supported by rods attached to the sponson above (see below). I do have photos of the area in question, but not at the office.

PS: yes, those searchlights really are floating in space, and yes, the starboard one really is upside down. Still.

[chuck]

Chuck/Flinger747:

I have just consulted my Pontos deck .pdf files and if I'm looking at the correct hatches, they DO provide the 16" ammunition scuttles on the main deck. As Tom mentioned, these are elongated circular openings in the deck close to the 16" barbettes and the teak is trimmed at each scuttle consistant with the type of trim throughout.

Note: I don't think I've ever heard of these being called REARMING scuttles, they are THE scuttles for storing the 16" ammo when it is being struck below upon delivery from the ammo barge or replenishment ship. Projectiles are never left on deck for any length of time after receipt; this is usually an "all hands" evolution meaning that all deck force/weapons dept. personnel are involved. I know I never had to participate, except when 5"/38 cal. ammo was being brought aboard. Secondary battery ammo was also an "all hands" evolution since there was so much of it. GMG's were always in charge to make sure the crew did things safely and properly.

Hope this helps,

Hank

Ahh, I see them now in the Pontos set. I didn't know what they were.

I guess the location of these hatches might explain why in many photos of these ships at port, the turrets are trained to the side at various different angles.

Thanks

[Fliger747]

Directly below on the main armored deck there is another circular hatch, which I believe is lifted out with tackle. I have a photo of this somewhere... The loading hatches were most likely placed under the turret overhangs as they are a weak spot in the armor and this spot would give some protection from aerial bombs.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Sort of off-topic, but not entirely - I wonder if ANY of the original Gibbs & Cox Engineers/Designers on the IOWA class project are still alive (and/or copus-mentus?? Might be interesting to talk with them about the ships and their evolution.

Hank

[Fliger747]

As the ships were designed in the late 1930's I would be surprised as they would have to be centarions. My 90 year old father, a navy WWII vet was only twenty in 1945 off Okinawa.

Cheers: t

[chuck]

I am also curious about how much freedom Gibb&Cox had in making major design decision for the ship, vs Navy's engineering and ship building bureau.

I believe Friedman mentioned iowa's engineering spaces were wholly revised after design was supposedly finalized and construction contract was signed because New York navy yard suggested major improvement to subdivision was possible.

[SebastianP]

Inspired by a combination of RandyM's solidworks model, my own languished spaceship versions, and a lot of World of Warships game footage, I decided to get my act together and build a 3D battleship or five of my own. To wit (click for a bigger version):



Basically, I'm building a 3D visual effects model of the Iowa-class for my own usage, starting with the Iowa in her original guise. This is not a CAD model for 3D printing like RandyM's, and I'm basically leaving the underwater portions of the hull alone (for now - the shape of the skegs is too complicated for the method I used on the rest of the hull to work properly, at least with my skill), but I want the superstructure to be at least halfway decent even if I can't make it 100% accurate like Randy is doing.

To that end, I'm looking for any pictures and references I can get for the Iowa's original bridge, as well as the New Jersey's round enclosed bridge. I'd also like some clarification regarding the New Jersey - I'm fairly certain I read *somewhere* that the New Jersey was actually finished with an Iowa-like catwalk around the conning tower only, and then refit with the enclosure post-shakedown or maybe post trials. But I can't remember where I read it, nor find any photos of it.

Also, there's a drawing of the Friedman book of the Iowa's original 40 mm battery, with 15 quads Bofors mounts. Did New Jersey *ever* carry a reduced 40 mm battery, or was she built from the get go with the 20 quads?

[RandyM]

SebastianP: VERY COOL. Nice to see others taking on this project. What software package are you using? I like the way you can (apparently, anyway) easily "paint" surfaces - waterline, etc. Very nice work.

To everyone - a question re: aft 40mm tubs (still). Below is a photo of both Missouri and Wisconsin. I am curious as to whether anyone can definitively define (redundant?) the objects circled in both photos. On the Missouri photo these appear to be simple thru-holes in the tubs (witness the staining beneath each one) while on Wisconsin there appear to be shadows beneath each, indicating that there are some sort of ports or vents in these locations. Does anyone KNOW what these were in 1945?

Thanks as always,
Randy

[BB62vet]

SebastianP -

If you go to NavSource.org you will find two photos which answer your question re. NEW JERSEY's bridge:

Photo USNHC 92293 shows her off Philly in May 1943 with the open bridge (walkway only).

Four photos below is one of NEW JERSEY fitting out at Philadelphia Navy Yard in late summer 1943 with the round enclosed bridge.

Two photos down (BuShips #49921) shows an overhead of NEW JERSEY without her dual forward 40mm tubs and without her 40mm tubs just forward of Turret 3. She also had a single 20mm battery shaped in a pentagon forward of Turret 1 - replaced later with dual 20mm single tubs. I would post these photos but this damn Lenovo cheapy has got some software problems that won't allow me to download files/photos. I've provided the photo locations instead.

RandyM - The openings in the Aft 40mm tubs I believe we discussed on page 130 of this thread - James M answered - they are drainage openings. I'm guessing that they are at tub platform level so water can exit the tub area.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[James M]

Randy, those are drain holes.
The boxy thing attached to the gun tub is a freeing port (thanks for the info Hank).
Looking at the real ones they look to be a way to remove excess 40mm cases overboard and maybe a larger drain port.