HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

[Willie]

Hi there Marijn and all,

Congrats for the new update and the superb progress you have made !!!! Pure viewing candy, my friend.

At 12 pieces of stretched sprue for each window, for 45 windows (=540 pieces!), this was really time-consuming! But I think it will be important for the final look of the model

It IS important, and BTW welcome to the club of the ones who (according to my mother) are going to condemn their souls for wasting so miserably the precious time of their lives .

I somehow managed to enjoy the process.

You are very right. I have lost track of how many times I started making chocks, davits or ammo boxes, long, boring and repetitive actions ad nauseam, and finally I ended up loving what I was doing...

For the windows and eyebrows, custom PE would undoubtedly have been a much easier option. Next project, I will try to plan ahead more�

Easier, but not half as interesting as doing it yourself, and not one third as pleasant when you see it done --by yourself .
Best regards from this side,

Willie.

[Devin]

Beautiful and inspiring work, as always.

[marijn van gils]

Many thanks Willie and Devin!

BTW welcome to the club of the ones who (according to my mother) are going to condemn their souls for wasting so miserably the precious time of their lives

Did she, by any chance, tell you how you should waste your time? Working? Watching TV? ...

Easier, but not half as interesting as doing it yourself, and not one third as pleasant when you see it done --by yourself .

I usually do try to keep time-efficiency up by using commercial parts wherever I can (but this project doesn't offer many options in this regard...), but I have to admit you are absolutely right!

[Silenoz]

and BTW welcome to the club of the ones who (according to my mother) are going to condemn their souls for wasting so miserably the precious time of their lives .

Willie.

Well your mother is not the only one with that idea, ask here at home....

Beautiful and stunning work Marijn.

[warspite63]

Hi Marijn
I recall watching your Amagi diorama evolve, being utterly amazed at the detail and precision......thinking 'This is as good as it gets'....well, you are raising the standard yet again! Bravo, sir, bravo!!

[Joe Simon]

Great work my friend!

[marijn van gils]

Many thanks guys!

[johndon]

And finally, I added the entrance steps on each side.

Absolutely stunning, when I first saw the pic I'll admit I thought it was a CGI rendering...

[pascalemod]

Surely been thought through by you considering your Amagi detail in painting, but how will you paint the Victory here? Yellow-Black or this pinkish buff / dark grey that they say today how it WAS painted? I assume contemporary paintings could be useful here etc but as I plan to make a 1/700 Victory I wonder on your take.

Im also waiting for a new book about this build which Ill buy just like I did with the previous publications with your work.

[wefalck]

Hhhmm ... at half the scale of what I am working in and a third the scale of 'dafi's' HMS VICTORY - rather impressive

[Frank Spahr]

Absolutely amazing. Yes, after the two awesome carriers, this is taking things another step further.

Duly awed

Frank

[marijn van gils]

Many thanks guys!

Surely been thought through by you considering your Amagi detail in painting, but how will you paint the Victory here? Yellow-Black or this pinkish buff / dark grey that they say today how it WAS painted? I assume contemporary paintings could be useful here etc but as I plan to make a 1/700 Victory I wonder on your take.

As a professional archaeologist, I do tend to follow my colleagues' analyses, at least unless I can come up with something better myself.
What I have seen from the actual study on the ship, the science looks solid and the outcome quite clear. So I will favour the pinkish buff over the bright yellow.
But I do like Dafi's interpretation too. Even though the researchers seem to have taken plenty of samples, it is indeed far from impossible that patches of multiple colours were present. Taking into account that hundreds of paint samples were analyzed, I would think that buff would be the dominant colour however.
Anyway, I don't think I can pull of a convincing patch-work like Dafi's in 1/300, but I'll certainly introduce some variation in the colour, if only to get more 'life' into it.

I would love to see a 1/700 Vic by you BTW!

Im also waiting for a new book about this build which Ill buy just like I did with the previous publications with your work.

Many thanks Pascalemod!
Unfortunately, that will still take some time...
But if you're impatient to read something written by me: I just published a big new book! (see general forum)

[pascalemod]

Many thanks guys!

Surely been thought through by you considering your Amagi detail in painting, but how will you paint the Victory here? Yellow-Black or this pinkish buff / dark grey that they say today how it WAS painted? I assume contemporary paintings could be useful here etc but as I plan to make a 1/700 Victory I wonder on your take.

As a professional archaeologist, I do tend to follow my colleagues' analyses, at least unless I can come up with something better myself.
What I have seen from the actual study on the ship, the science looks solid and the outcome quite clear. So I will favour the pinkish buff over the bright yellow.
But I do like Dafi's interpretation too. Even though the researchers seem to have taken plenty of samples, it is indeed far from impossible that patches of multiple colours were present. Taking into account that hundreds of paint samples were analyzed, I would think that buff would be the dominant colour however.
Anyway, I don't think I can pull of a convincing patch-work like Dafi's in 1/300, but I'll certainly introduce some variation in the colour, if only to get more 'life' into it.

I would love to see a 1/700 Vic by you BTW!

Im also waiting for a new book about this build which Ill buy just like I did with the previous publications with your work.

Many thanks Pascalemod!
Unfortunately, that will still take some time...
But if you're impatient to read something written by me: I just published a big new book! (see general forum)

very cool! Thanks for the clarification. Ill also aim for buff-dark grey, probably in 1/700 it will be quite impressive next to Hood or smth.

[dafi]

Have a look here for the color discussion

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&p=908986#p908919

XXXDAn

[Daniele]

Hilarious that few days ago� , while browsing this thread Again , I was thinking ..�Marijin should start his own publishing company � .
Something like Micheal Rinaldi and his tank art series and SM ( single model one ) .

Just a thought ..no pressure I know it than became a job and not a relaxing hobby

Daniele

[Bouncy70]

Impressive work! But - a word of warning here, you may already know this, but: The quarter-galleries on either side of the stern were simple appendages to the hull proper. You have removed the hull sides from inside the galleries, giving a very picturesque see-through effect, but you will need to reinstall the hull sides inside the galleries.

It was quite common for many (most!) of the windows in the quarter galleries to be dummies, this also goes for the outermost window or two windows in each level on the stern itself. The quarter gallery was a toilet and one wouldn't want to be too exposed when doing business there Victory does have real windows in all the relevant places (at least as she is today) but this was not typical. Redoutable would in all probability be more closed up, only having the center window or part of the center window on each level of the quarter gallery actually glazed.

[kurusu]

Impressive work! But - a word of warning here, you may already know this, but: The quarter-galleries on either side of the stern were simple appendages to the hull proper. You have removed the hull sides from inside the galleries, giving a very picturesque see-through effect, but you will need to reinstall the hull sides inside the galleries.

I had the exact same thought. But have been in the "wait and see" mode. But, since the "cat is out of the bag...

[wefalck]

Re. the paint scheme: there has been a very interesting article on the topic in Mariner's Mirror recently:

VALE, B. (2020): Pitch, Paint, Varnish and the Changing Colour Schemes of Royal Navy Warship, 1775-1815: A Summary of Existing Knowlege.- The Mariner�s Mirror, 106(1): 30-42.

It was brought to my attention when I was researching the paint that was used to restore HMS GANNET in Chatham. The upshot is that the pinkish buff that was found on HMS VICTORY seems to have been the result of economy on the side of the Admiralty. They were slowly phasing out the red for interior painting, but not sufficient ochre was supplied to the ships to renew the paint every six months as expected. Therefore, the ochre was stretched with red surplus pigment that was still available in the ships' dotation.

[marijn van gils]

Have a look here for the color discussion

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&p=908986#p908919

XXXDAn

Thanks Dan! I'm following with great interest!

Hilarious that few days ago� , while browsing this thread Again , I was thinking ..�Marijin should start his own publishing company � .
Something like Micheal Rinaldi and his tank art series and SM ( single model one ) .

Just a thought ..no pressure I know it than became a job and not a relaxing hobby

Daniele

Thanks Daniele, I'll take that as a compliment! I'm a big fan of Michael's work and publications, and I feel lucky to be able to call him a friend.
But for myself, I prefer to focus on the fun stuff indeed: actual modelling, and then writing a little about it. I'll leave the busyness side of things to people who actually know something about that!

Impressive work! But - a word of warning here, you may already know this, but: The quarter-galleries on either side of the stern were simple appendages to the hull proper. You have removed the hull sides from inside the galleries, giving a very picturesque see-through effect, but you will need to reinstall the hull sides inside the galleries.

Many thanks! This is exactly the kind of feedback I need!
In this case, I luckily did think about it early on. But it is of course not visible on the pics of the 'empty' hull, and you would have to dig back in this thread a lot to see my solution.
The decks are removable for painting, and for ease of access I glued the hull sections behind the quarter galleries to the decks instead of to the hull:


Glazing the windows will normally reduce visibility inside, but I agree completely that something should be inside...

It was quite common for many (most!) of the windows in the quarter galleries to be dummies, this also goes for the outermost window or two windows in each level on the stern itself. The quarter gallery was a toilet and one wouldn't want to be too exposed when doing business there Victory does have real windows in all the relevant places (at least as she is today) but this was not typical. Redoutable would in all probability be more closed up, only having the center window or part of the center window on each level of the quarter gallery actually glazed.

Yes, that is very true! For Victory, I left them all as 'real' windows like she is today, by lack of better information. Maybe she had curtains?
But for Redoutable, I followed Boudriot's 'the 74 gun ship' to the letter on the location of mock windows:



On the upper gundeck level of the quarter galleries, even only the upper half of the central window was real, the rest was mock!
And the stern windows n�2 and 9 actaully but against the hull side walls, so they even couldn't work as a window at all.

But I am still looking for information about what these mock windows actually looked like. What colour were they painted? Black? Where they glazed? etc...
Boudriot doesn't write about this, his drawings don't really show it, and the 'traditional' wooden models don't give reliable info either...
Maybe you know?

Re. the paint scheme: there has been a very interesting article on the topic in Mariner's Mirror recently:

VALE, B. (2020): Pitch, Paint, Varnish and the Changing Colour Schemes of Royal Navy Warship, 1775-1815: A Summary of Existing Knowlege.- The Mariner�s Mirror, 106(1): 30-42.

It was brought to my attention when I was researching the paint that was used to restore HMS GANNET in Chatham. The upshot is that the pinkish buff that was found on HMS VICTORY seems to have been the result of economy on the side of the Admiralty. They were slowly phasing out the red for interior painting, but not sufficient ochre was supplied to the ships to renew the paint every six months as expected. Therefore, the ochre was stretched with red surplus pigment that was still available in the ships' dotation.

Many thanks Wefalck! It is very useful indeed to get insights in the 'why' behind things like this...

[kurusu]

Impressive work! But - a word of warning here, you may already know this, but: The quarter-galleries on either side of the stern were simple appendages to the hull proper. You have removed the hull sides from inside the galleries, giving a very picturesque see-through effect, but you will need to reinstall the hull sides inside the galleries.

Many thanks! This is exactly the kind of feedback I need!
In this case, I luckily did think about it early on. But it is of course not visible on the pics of the 'empty' hull, and you would have to dig back in this thread a lot to see my solution.
The decks are removable for painting, and for ease of access I glued the hull sections behind the quarter galleries to the decks instead of to the hull:


Glazing the windows will normally reduce visibility inside, but I agree completely that something should be inside...

Completey forgot about that. But afterall it was in 2018.

Yes, that is very true! For Victory, I left them all as 'real' windows like she is today, by lack of better information. Maybe she had curtains?
But for Redoutable, I followed Boudriot's 'the 74 gun ship' to the letter on the location of mock windows:



On the upper gundeck level of the quarter galleries, even only the upper half of the central window was real, the rest was mock!
And the stern windows n�2 and 9 actaully but against the hull side walls, so they even couldn't work as a window at all.

But I am still looking for information about what these mock windows actually looked like. What colour were they painted? Black? Where they glazed? etc...
Boudriot doesn't write about this, his drawings don't really show it, and the 'traditional' wooden models don't give reliable info either...
Maybe you know?

My guess would be black.

This contemporary model makes me think so.

https://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-natio ... ecord/9025