Calling all Allen M. Sumner-class & Gearing-class DD fans

[Guest]

Rick,

The SR RADAR I'm interested in is like the one on the Orleck in the above photo. With the compound surface, its more difficult than the flat ones. The reason I want that particular one is that it was one of my responsibilities as an ET. I found quite a lot of PE radars on The Floating Drydock but none like the ones I need.

The BaD Gearing models do have a few problems. I am not knocking the maker because it must be a difficult and low paying job to put these together even if they do seem expensive at first. The first issue is that the bulkhead forms were laser cut (very accurately), but cut to the shape of the actual full cross sections on the plans. This made then to the outside dimensions not allowing for the 1/8" thickness of the planking. That means the model is 1/4" (or 2' full scale) more beam. Not such a problem except near the bow where it gets out of hand and must be modified to bring the bow to the correct shape. The deck (sheer) is also wrong and creates a hook or kink under the bridge area and makes the bow almost 5' to high. Looks terrible but that was a simple matter of whacking off the offending material and making the deck sheer to match the plans. The main thing is catch these problems before they get too involved. Not complaining and am just glad that someone took the time and effort to put these models together with minimal return on the low volume of orders.

I also had some thin (1/32" and 1/16") aircraft ply from Aircraft Spruce Co. which is much neater and easier to work with than the ply in the kit.

Searching for photos and through brain files from 60 years ago is another constraint but it is bringing back memories of guns banging away at targets in North Korea and other perhaps best forgotten parts of being at war. Thinking about the SR RADAR reminds me of the time the gearcase oil froze in the winter and stopped the rotation because the heater burned out. Luckily the weather was not too bad when I had to go up to replace it.

[Rick E Davis]

Ah ... you are looking for the SR-6A or SR-6B antenna. I found out about this radar only on my last couple of trips to NARA. Recently, I'm finding a bunch of "Antenna Survey" photos from the 1950s. In 1948 there was a new Air Search Radar introduced and eventually installed on about 28 SUMNER/GEARING destroyers ... the SR-6 radar. The original antenna was similar to the old SC radar only different with a wave guide horn. I found a good photo of this antenna on a GEARING in a 1949 photo ... on DUNCAN actually ... in early March (see attachments below) and didn't recognize it so I looked it up in Friedman's Radar book. There WASN'T a photo of this radar's antenna in the book, but there was a description and discussion about it. According to Friedman, the SR-6 had terrible performance with this antenna. So they substituted the SPS-6A antenna and called the new combo the SR-6A or with a SPS-6B antenna and called it SR-6B. I suspect that is your radar. In photos you can't tell a SPS-6 or SR-6A apart.

Attached images:


I happen to have an image of your ship, USS DUNCAN (DDR-874) on a photo dated 28 June 1952.




A 1957 view of the SR-6B on USS BRINKLEY BASS on 1 November 1957.




A view of a "typical" SPS-6C radar on USS ROGERS (DDR-876) on 7 December 1957. Hard to tell the two apart.



Then for the record, below are smaller views of the 1949 SR-6 antenna on DUNCAN.

[Guest]

Fantastic photos and better than any I have been able to find on the web. I am obviously aboard Duncan in the photo taken at Okinawa in 1952. We were escorting the carrier Essex south to China and Vietnam for some clandestine air recon for the Nationalist Chinese on Formosa and the French in Vietnam. The SR6b is just as I remember it (with some help from the detail photos). The complex shape and detail may defeat my old fingers though. We often operated with the Rogers and Brinkley Bass in Korea. I also remember that some wags from Duncan or another division can painted out both B's while in Sasebo and she may have left port as the "rinkley ass". Did not actually see this myself but it is such a good story that I am sticking to it.

Thanks again for the photos.

[Rick E Davis]

The good thing is that there are after-market SPS-6 antennas available, the bad (or unknown) news whether there is one available in 1/96 scale.

I suggest doing a google search on "1/96 scale SPS-6 antenna". I have gotten lucky on doing web searches at times.

[Jennings]

Thank YOU!! Great pic, and exactly what I needed!!

ORLECK (DD-866) on 11 September 1951

[40. Bofors]

Here is a picture a WWII vet. game me of the ship he was on. I believe it is the USS Ault.




Here is a picture after I scanned the photo in and used photoshop to make the picture bigger, adjust levels, brightness, color balance and fixed the cracks as best as possible. I got the picture a little dark. Sorry first attempt.

[Russ2146]

That deserves a place in the Weathering photos also

[40. Bofors]

That deserves a place in the Weathering photos also

I'll definitely post a picture there as well. I have the original photo and went to Target to use there Kodak scanner to get a larger picture. Somehow I'd like to have it professionally enlarged and maybe colored as well.

[Guest]

http://www.tehnoart.eu/uss-shevalier.html

[Rick E Davis]

The Techoart CHEVALIER kit is nice, but the model as built has some errors.

There are some errors with the antennas installation.




Also, the DDRs only had two twin Mk 24 20-mm mounts on the fantail.

[drdoom1337]

I've been heavily toying with the idea of converting a Gearing into DM-32. Besides removing plastic behind the stacks what else would be necessary to make a mine layer?

Here is a photo with all credit going to Navsource and it's original contributor.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015504.jpg

[Rick E Davis]

First off the DMs were based on the SUMNER class hull which was shorter than the "long-hull" GEARINGS. So, yes you will need to remove some plastic from the hull.

There would be several areas that would need to be altered ... no 20-mm guns on the fantail, relocation of the K-Guns, adding mine rails, etc. I have not tried to make a listing of all the differences. See attached overhead image, I see eight 20-mm guns and the standard 40-mm layout.

Overhead view of DM-28 TOLMAN on 27 October 1944 (NARA 80-G-283999)

[Russ2146]

About the only place to shorten a Dragon Gearing is between the stacks but aft of the through passage doorways. this is the only place where the resulting hull sections will match up with minimal difference in the beam. Its also the only place where the deckhouse won't give you nightmares. The plug you need to remove from the hull is about 11mm.

[denstore]

About the only place to shorten a Dragon Gearing is between the stacks but aft of the through passage doorways. this is the only place where the resulting hull sections will match up with minimal difference in the beam. Its also the only place where the deckhouse won't give you nightmares. The plug you need to remove from the hull is about 11mm.

Sounds scary. Is there a lot that need to be relocated as well?
I would really like to make a dazzle camo Gearing or Sumner. Is the conversion my only option?

[Russ2146]

The only things that have to move are the two 5" practce loading machines.

You need to remove some deck house bulkhead, port and Stbd, main deck and first superstructure deck/01deck.

The modification has been done twice that I am aware of. I did it but ran into difficulty in making a gun tub for the 3"/50 upgrade to bring my model into the '50's/'60's. I bekieve it was Christian Brauer who also did it. Pictures of both should be lurking in the forum somewhere.

If you do your cutting with a saw, just remember to account for the kerf of the saw blade.

when putting the newly sized pieces back together, I reinforced the joints with strip styrene on the inside of the hull and underside of decks, using plastic cement rather than CA. The hull sides do not line up perfectly and I used filler with a long taper or feathering toward the stern.

[Guest]

Dragon makes several versions of Gearing class destroyers. What are the differences between them?

[Timmy C]

Three Dragon kits of the Gearing class exist:

Gearing: standard/unmodified original Gearing. Review: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

Chevalier: DDR modification - tripod mainmast to support more radars for radar picket duty. Review: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

Frank Knox: DDR modification with aft torpedo tubes. Similar to Chevalier but has a 5-tube torpedo launcher instead of the Chevalier's suite of AA guns on the aft deckhouse. Also comes with reinforced 5" gunhouses for some post-war fits. See review conclusions: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

[raggs]

Question for the forum;

On page 13 of this thread Rick posted pics of the Frank Knox & Southerland in their commissioned
wavy paint schemes. Southerland was the first US ship I ever saw up close, San Diego 1975,
eight years old, running around with 24 Kodak exposures to take...snapped a pic as soon as I stepped outta the car. I still have that pic of the bow# & mt 51.
Now I'd like to paint her in the commissioned scheme showed in the pics. She looks like a two color mix
of MS22, with an "MS 30 something" wavy scheme on the vertical.
I would like to think this is Navy grey (5N) & Haze grey (5H) given it being late war and the light afforded in the pics, but aint quite sure. B&W can be deceptive. If it was 43 or 44 I'd say Navy Blue,
not sure in '45.

Any thoughts....

Thanks,

Paul

[Rick E Davis]

If you want to model SOUTHERLAND in her "as built" and commissioned configuration AND with the dazzle camo scheme then she will need to be before her DDR conversion in a Fleet Destroyer configuration with two TT mounts. The Dazzle scheme according to this website ... http://usndazzle.com/1Web/D692byNos.html ... Ms 33a/28D ... which looks like this ... http://usndazzle.com/1Web/Drawings/28D%20DD692.html

Note that she painted out of the dazzle scheme during her conversion to a DDR. The as commissioned images of SOUTHERLAND in MS 33a/28D that I posted are on page 12. As a matter of fact no GEARING stayed in dazzle camo for long.

The current 1/350 scale DML GEARING kit doesn't have a second (aft) Mk 15 TT mount, you need to either find an aftermarket TT mount in 1/350 scale or kit bash with the SOUTHERLAND DDR kit. I'm less sure of what other kits are available in other scales at this time ... in 1/700 scale there are/were kits from Pitroad/Skywave and a long gone company called Albatross that made GEARING kits and there is a 1/192 scale kit by Technoart ... http://www.tehnoart.eu/gearing-class-de ... scale.html ....

Frankly, if you buy the DML GEARING and SOUTHERLAND kits, by mixing parts you can come up with SOUTHERLAND in two of her configurations ... as commissioned and after 1946 (with a quad 40-mm mount replacing the aft TT mount) and before about 1950.

[raggs]

Thanks for the link Rick.