Calling all USS Yorktown CV-5 fans

[jabarry]

Yes, I didn't even mention Hornet because of the different forward flight deck and from photos we know she had no FD markings.

As for the F4F I didn't mention the color of the numbers as there was some intermix as necessity depending on fuel and spot situations and that would take more time to refresh my memory as to who landed were when as necessity might have dictated. I believe it to be a VF-3 aircraft.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Yes, I didn't even mention Hornet because of the different forward flight deck and from photos we know she had no FD markings.

As for the F4F I didn't mention the color of the numbers as there was some intermix as necessity depending on fuel and spot situations and that would take more time to refresh my memory as to who landed were when as necessity might have dictated. I believe it to be a VF-3 aircraft.

I was concentrating on the absence of red discs in the stars on the F4F as a method of dating it to Midway specifically, as all prior photos would have red discs. Since several a/c cross decked during the battle, the unit it belonged to would not be able to prove anything else about the ship in the photo.

[jabarry]

I revised my previous markings on the Kolyadko drawing. I removed gray outlines from the elevators as there isn't one apparent on the forward elevator. In past photos the center elevator has a more prominent demarcation, but this could just be the light and angle or something different in the metal edging. That will require a little more study. I thinned the forward center line dashes as per the latest photograph.

[Michael Vorrasi]

I revised my previous markings on the Kolyadko drawing. I removed gray outlines from the elevators as there isn't one apparent on the forward elevator. In past photos the center elevator has a more prominent demarcation, but this could just be the light and angle or something different in the metal edging. That will require a little more study. I thinned the forward center line dashes as per the latest photograph.

If you are going to tweak that drawing, you will need some armament changes. Remove the five 20mm in the starboard forward gallery and replace with four 50 cal. remove the three 20mm in the gallery immediately aft of the island and replace with four 50 cal., then place eight 20mm alongside the starboard side of the island. Then add two 20mm on the fantail at hangar level. She had more 50 calibers sprinkled about, but might be too small a drawing to show them on.

[jabarry]

Its not my drawing so I don't have the original file. It was easy to overlay some dashed lines, not so easy to do much more than that without lots of pixel flipping. I mentioned the armament was not accurate back in 2012. Even my lines would be somewhat over scale. Just trying to show their basic characteristics. I have all the armament information from earlier in this forum, maybe somewhere down the road I could get everything all together and put it in an accurate graphic - I hope someone beats me to it. I have enough information now that I can be pretty happy with a build of Tom's Modelworks Yorktown. Been a long time for all the information to surface since I first started wondering back in the latter 1960s.

Hey and thanks Michael for all your posts on this forum. It was some of the photos you posted back on 2012 that got me looking again for new photos that had come to the surface since I quit looking some time ago!

[Michael Vorrasi]

Been a long time for all the information to surface since I first started wondering back in the latter 1960s.

Hey and thanks Michael for all your posts on this forum. It was some of the photos you posted back on 2012 that got me looking again for new photos that had come to the surface since I quit looking some time ago!

LOL. I see you are also on the quest for the Holy Grail! I've been at it at least since the 1960's too. I think I have most of what I am after, but I still seek good close up shots of Hornet's port side island, taken at say, the 10 or 11 o'clock position from across the deck, and a good close up shot of the starboard side of her island showing the full eight gun 20mm gallery after upgrades from original four guns done after Midway. I know what is there, I just want good details. The quest is half the fun!

[jabarry]

Darn it, now you gave me more quests! I will keep what you're looking for in mind and I will sure post anything I stumble across here. I am waiting to hear back from the National WWII Museum which is where I stumbled across the Yorktown photo. I hope they have more that have not seen the light of day or the electrons of the internet. It was placed in all places as a photo for the F4F writeup on their site - and I got there looking at at the image results on a Google search on the TBD. I was looking for TBD markings because I forgot I had a book on the subject. As soon as I saw it my jaw dropped and knew what it was instantly. I just know that Bill Roy has more images from the Yorktown at Midway that have not been seen since shortly after the battle.

[Par429]

I'm building a diorama of the USS Yorktown just before she was torpedoed using the Merit 1/350 kit. Is there any knowledge of how many of what aircraft types were still left onboard on the hangar deck when she was abandoned?

Thanks for any help,
Phil

[Tracy White]

It's not mentioned in her Loss in Action Report and I don't know of any official report that does. This photo shows a TBD in the overhead about where the island is - note the slanted bulkhead over the uptakes in the background at left. There's a photo I have of a crashed F4F inverted on the hangar deck I'll see if I can remember to post tomorrow the plane is just forward of the midships elevator from what I remember

[Par429]

It's not mentioned in her Loss in Action Report and I don't know of any official report that does. This photo shows a TBD in the overhead about where the island is - note the slanted bulkhead over the uptakes in the background at left. There's a photo I have of a crashed F4F inverted on the hangar deck I'll see if I can remember to post tomorrow the plane is just forward of the midships elevator from what I remember

Tracy-
Thanks. The inverted F4F photo is published in That Gallant Ship and there appears to be several SBDs behind it. Plus the 2 damaged Enterprise SBDs should still have been aboard I would think. So it seems that I could put a few SBDs on the hangar deck and still be in the ballpark.

Thanks again,
Phil

[DennisJP]

I have read that one of the operations the salvage party did was remove the planes in the hangar deck and threw them overboard.

[Par429]

I have read that one of the operations the salvage party did was remove the planes in the hangar deck and threw them overboard.

Right, I have read the same. But there doesn't seem to be an official report from the salvage effort that they did get them all thrown overboard in the time they had available. After re-reading the appropriate parts of That Gallant Ship and The First Team, I figure there were 9 SBDs on the hangar deck. Seven SBDs of a reserve strike group and the two VB-6 orphans. Also the inverted F4F and an unknown number of TBDs in the overhead. So again, I think I can put a few SBDs on the hangar deck and perhaps show them in the process of being thrown overboard.

Thanks,
Phil

[TOMLABEL]

Working on the Merit kit of CV5. I'm getting near the point of the build where I need to plan for the degaussing cables. I don't have too many pics of the areas where these were for CV5, but I am familiar with the difference in the layout from bow to hangar deck catapult area between CV5 and CV6. There are a lot of photos of CV6 in May/June 1942 that show the rest of the hull and stern (not complete) but in various locations.

My question is, would I be too far off in following the ENT layout from the hangar deck catapult back or were there difference even in these areas between CV5 & 6 during this time frame?

Thank you!!

TOMLABEL

[Michael Vorrasi]

Working on the Merit kit of CV5. I'm getting near the point of the build where I need to plan for the degaussing cables. I don't have too many pics of the areas where these were for CV5, but I am familiar with the difference in the layout from bow to hangar deck catapult area between CV5 and CV6. There are a lot of photos of CV6 in May/June 1942 that show the rest of the hull and stern (not complete) but in various locations.

My question is, would I be too far off in following the ENT layout from the hangar deck catapult back or were there difference even in these areas between CV5 & 6 during this time frame?

Thank you!!

TOMLABEL

Hi Kelly,

The cables ran pretty much in a straight line just below the edge of the hangar deck all the way aft once you get by the bow differences. CV-5's cables entered back in the hull just a little bit farther aft than CV-6's did, almost right at the hull crease between port and starboard sides at the fantail. CV-6 cables entered maybe a foot or two before CV-5's.

[TOMLABEL]

Hi Mike,

Thank you! That's some great information that will really help, especially the part of where the cables enter the fantail on CV5. I didn't realize that the port and starboard cables came that close at the fantail.

[TOMLABEL]

Thanks to Mike I continued my research on the degaussing cables on CV5 and ran across the Ballard photo and the artwork based on that photo. Indeed the cables definitely meet at the fantail, but it looks like it may be a continuous connections unless I am missing or not seeing something correctly. They could meet and enter the hull at a very narrow junction which creates the illusion of being continuous but its hard to tell.

Any additional comments, corrections or ideas are welcome as I am trying to get this part correct.

TOMLABEL

(click on photo to enlarge)

[Michael Vorrasi]

Thanks to Mike I continued my research on the degaussing cables on CV5 and ran across the Ballard photo and the artwork based on that photo. Indeed the cables definitely meet at the fantail, but it looks like it may be a continuous connections unless I am missing or not seeing something correctly. They could meet and enter the hull at a very narrow junction which creates the illusion of being continuous but its hard to tell.

Any additional comments, corrections or ideas are welcome as I am trying to get this part correct.

TOMLABEL

(click on photo to enlarge)

That is a better angle than the photo I had. The cable definitely looks continuous around the fantail

[TOMLABEL]

Thank you, Mike! Wasn't sure, but was pretty sure you would be able to make a definite conclusion either way.

In this pic I think it is pretty safe to conclude where the the cables originate from the bow. This is a crop from the CV5 Pearl Harbor drydock pic.

(please click on photo to enlarge)

[TOMLABEL]

A couple more questions...

In the attached pic/s of CV5 at Pearl, looking at the top arrows in both side-by-side pics, what type of radar does Yorktown have mounted on top of the funnel?

Second question: The lower set of arrows points at the railing around the funnel. Does anyone have any further definition on these railings as they seem very high compared to plans and the various PE sets for the funnel whether it be in 1/480 or 1/350 scale for the Yorktown/Hornet? (Edit) Merit kit seems to capture this based on photos of built model.




TOMLABEL

[Dick J]

The antenna was discussed a few years ago after someone posted a hi-rez copy of that photo, but I don't think we were able to find a definitive answer. Speculation included an early SA radar or an experimental IFF interrogator. Mike Vorrasi might remember where we left off. I took a quick look back through this thread but couldn't find that part of the discussion.