Calling all Allen M. Sumner-class & Gearing-class DD fans

[throck3]

Rick,
Once again, thank you for sharing your knowledge and reference files. The DAK 2 and 3 I had seen but had never looked into. I didn't know the name for them to start looking.

Interesting about the lack of twin gun 20mms on Sumners. Many Sumners were of such late war production, I had taken it for granted that a few were manufactured with them. I had noticed the redesign of the bridge as it happened so quickly. In pouring over the Navsource photos of the various Sumners in dazzle camo patterns, I was intrigued also by many variations of the specific patterns. As I said in my original question, I am building a late '44 DD 731 USS Maddox, which is in Measure 32, Design 9d. I found eleven Sumners in that pattern of dazzle. Each one is generally in that pattern, but there are small deviations here and there on them all. Entertaining and frustrating all at the same time.

Thanks again for the information.

Best,
Rick T
throck3

[Rick E Davis]

For destroyers, the twin (Mk24) 20-mm mounts didn't start to be installed until April 1945 when they were authorized. By that time most of the Short-Hull SUMNER class had been built and production shifted to the Long-Hull SUMNER's (What the Gearings were officially called until about 1951). 55 were completed as destroyers during the war and only three AFTER the war was over. Plus twelve were completed as DM's.

[NavyFan1]

Totally unrelated to modeling but I thought I'd throw it in the pot. Found a blog run by an ex- Navy guy who related a story about the Gearing class destroyer USS Brinkley Bass.

Apparently at some point during the Korean War, she was in a Japanese port tied up alongside her tender with several of her sisters and the crews were given liberty. Well, you know what sailors tend to do on liberty! Long story short, after several helpings of liquid courage, unknown persons sneaked up to the ships stern under cover of darkness with cans of haze gray paint in hand.

When the ship pulled out next day, the two B's were missing from her name.

[pbrowne]

Dragon Frank Knox on the bench with AMW Gearing detail set. Currently applying the AMW non-skid PE and wondering if there was non-skid under/around the aft torpedo tubes. AMW has the PE for the aft 40mm tub base, and of course Frank Knox had the torpedoes instead. Can't seem to find any images of the aft torpedo tubes. Any ideas about this?

Thanks

Peter

[blueridge]

I recently completed BlueJacket Shipcrafters' 1/192 scale Gearing FRAM I kit as the USS Basilone (DD-824) as she appeared during her 1966 World Cruise.
I posted some photos over in the Completed Ship Models section of the Photo section under the title "1/192 scale Gearing FRAM I DD". I can recommend the kit, it builds into a nice display model straight out of the box and the scale lends itself to as mush scratch detailing as you could want to do. BJ makes another version of the kit in the WWII rig.
Tim

[Rick E Davis]

Peter,

I don't have a comparable overhead view of USS FRANK KNOX (DDR-742), but here is a view of her sister converted at BosNY with her, USS SOUTHERLAND (DDR-743). Since you may need it, I cropped the whole aft deckhouse area. As you can see, much of the deck area was covered with non-skid material. Around the TT-Mount, only walkway areas along the side where the torpedoes would be serviced, were covered as far as I can tell. Note; The light area on the main deck amidships, is primer.

[pbrowne]

That is very helpful Rick

Many thanks,

Peter

[CL40]

Greetings all:

It's been way too long since I've posted on here.

I am doing research on a former Sumner Class DD - USS Waldron (DD-699). I want to build it as it was when it was in Colombian Service as the Santander (DD-03).

Any recommendations as to a kit I can use as a basis? I am looking at Iron Shipwrights Laffey kit as it already is a FRAM II conversion.

thanks!

[Rick E Davis]

I don't build many Resin kits and don't keep track of what is available in that media, it seems that resin kits disappear never to return. When I see a resin kit of a subject I REALLY want to build, I buy it even if not ready to build it. There are no Plastic FRAM kits that I'm aware of in any scale.

If the Shipwrights kit is the only one you can Google/Find, then that likely is your best (maybe only) option unless you find any discontinued resin kits made by other firms at kit swap meets, vendor tables, or on someplace like E-Bay.

[CL40]

I did indeed order the Laffey from Freetime Hobbies in GA. I should have it within the next several days. I also ordered the Trumpeter 1/350 Massachusetts as well.

[Mil.K]

Soon it will be done.... http://millius.rajce.idnes.cz/1_350_Gea ... ss_fram_I/#

Iron Shipwrights never more...

[JCRAY]

What crap! He should give you half of your money back at least...

[Mil.K]

My 1:350 FRAM destroyer .

[Michael Potter]

Mil.K, your 1:350 FRAM destroyer is impressive.

[ChoinieRx]

I don't generally post a whole lot around here, but my father and I were discussing a trip to go see the Orleck (He served on her in the early 70s) in Lake Charles, LA this coming March when I found this and felt the need to share: http://orleck.org/history/videos/451-sa ... fundraiser.

I don't know that they'll be able to raise enough money to save the ship, but I think it's a shame that they've only been able to get 19 people and < $10,000 towards their goal.

Apologies if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

[FRAMSailor]

Mil K. Your great model brought back a lot of memories!

[Ian Roberts]

Looking for high-res photos of the GEARING radar pickets (DDR) - especially CHEVALIER (DD-805) and FRANK KNOX (DD-742). I have the stuff on Navsource, but sadly the NHHC website doesn't seem to have much on the DDRs in their usual high-res TIFF collection.

From combing this thread, I've found a lot of great photos from Rick Davis as usual - just wondering if there are any others you guys can share.

Cheers

[Rick E Davis]

Gee ... What era are you looking for? Late WWII? I assume the units that actually made it to the war zone before the war ended?

Here are a couple of rare views of USS FRANK KNOX (DD(R)-742 and USS SOUTHERLAND (DD(R)-743) working up in the Pacific. They were the only two to have retained the torpedo tubes aft upon arrival in the Pacific. All the others completed to torpedo tubes had them replaced with a quad 40-mm mount before heading to the Pacific.





Here is a view of USS CHEVALIER (DD(R)-805) in May 1945 showing that she did get the quad 40-mm replacing the torpedo tubes.



I have other views of these ships as they completed. There were variations between the early converted units, for a few things other than whether they still had torpedo tubes or a quad 40-mm mount aft (like DBM antenna placement). It largely depends on if the units were converted to DDR at BosNY or NorNY.

Only DDR-742, DDR-743, DDR-805, DDR-806 and DDR-807 made it to the war zone before the war ended.

[Ian Roberts]

Those are awesome photos!

What I'm really looking for are wartime views of CHEVALIER and FRANK KNOX - especially close-ups of the bridge structure (and the vents along the 01 level abeam the bridge), the SP radar mast, and the aft superstructure. Thanks!

[Rick E Davis]

First off I'm going to provide a little background on the conversion of the GEARING class units to DDR's.

DD-742, 743, 805, 806, 807, 808, and 829 were built at BIW and converted at USN Yards. Of these seven units, all were converted at BosNY except for DD-805 which was converted at NorNY, due to workload and the need to get Norfolk Navy Yard up to speed on the conversion pioneered by Boston. From DD-830 on for BIW-built units, BIW was tasked with the bulk of the conversion work. BosNY did the final Fitting-Out and most of the aft quad 40-mm upgrades.

Consolidated-Built units were converted by NorNY. None of these units made it to the war zone before the war ended. USS HAWKINS (DD-873) came close, she was sailing three days out from Pearl Harbor when the war ended.

So basically, for all of the BIW-built units, the basic structural items of those units should be the same. As for the DDR conversions, the conversions were a work in progress and changes occurred during the first few units modified.

The photos below are a mix of the two units that you are interested in as they were completed and during their first post-WWII overhaul period. I have tried to find views of the areas you are concerned about.

USS FRANK KNOX (DD-742)

USS FRANK KNOX as seen on 23 March 1945, some changes likely were made between this photo and her departure for the Pacific. One change I did spot, is that in the 5 June 1945 images I posted, USS FRANK KNOX has had a DBM antenna for her RCM suite added to the foremast, which does not appear in the 24 March 1945 photo



Views of USS FRANK KNOX after her Post-WWII overhaul. It is easy to tell what changes were made from the circles. But, in general the only major changes was the removal of the aft torpedo tubes and install of the quad 40-mm mount.





USS CHEVALIER (DD-805)

USS CHEVALIER was converted at NorNY and as such there may be some differences, I have not tried to ID them. The next three images were taken at Hampton Roads by the local Norfolk Navy Yard/aerial recon photographers. In general they did a much better job than the Boston Navy Yard photographers.



A close crop of the above image.



A broadside view.