Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

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lvsquarerigger
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by lvsquarerigger »

Tracy White wrote:
sixman wrote:Has part 4 of Tracy White's 'So you want to build a Lexington' been posted anywhere?
Part four was/is to be the island and stack.. I stopped to wait for information on what the proper shapes should be, and also to try and figure out how to shape the splinter shields... there's areas that have 2/3 to 3/4 straight and then it curves outwards. I'd like to do it in .020 or .010 plastic but thus far attempts at forming have been fairly unsuccessful.

I've since got a fairly good idea how the flag plot, etc. should look. The plastic and other projects are what's holding me up.
Just got back from Montana and haven't gotten started on models again but was checking to see what was going on. This is also where I have been holding off looking for certified information on the discrepancies. Any sharing would be appreciated.

Jim
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Tracy White »

The best I'm going to be able to do is post photos of my work and maybe sketches, I have copies of plans of the proposed changes, which are about as good as we're going to get, but I can't redistribute them.
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

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lvsquarerigger
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by lvsquarerigger »

Tracy White wrote:The best I'm going to be able to do is post photos of my work and maybe sketches, I have copies of plans of the proposed changes, which are about as good as we're going to get, but I can't redistribute them.
Anything is better than what we have now which is a lot of specualtion. :big_grin:

Jim
CharlesC
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Info on LEX-2, CV-2

Post by CharlesC »

Hi Tracy, Hope all is well. Need some help on my carrier. Just finished my model. What I should have pre-planned, I didn't. Being my first ship model I didn,t think I would be able to do the job. I wan't to put up an arresting cable andcrash gate retainer. Just one of each, for show.
What materials would I have to use for it? I guess some kind of mesh for the crash gate. Where would I buy it? What for the cable? How would I attach them?
For rigging, white or black thread? Make a difference? How do you make it taut while its being attached?
I read that resin won't adhere to plastic. How do I glue them if I want to buy resin parts for the plastic Missouri I wan't to build?
They are both scale 1/350 models.
Do Ship builders ever use photo-etch parts and not paint them? If they do doesn't it take away from the authenticity?
Appreciate any help. CharlesC :wave_1: :thumbs_up_1:
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kidcurrie42
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by kidcurrie42 »

Hi All,
I have started my Fujimi Lex, i am hoping to backdate her to just prior to WW2, i started reading this thread last night and am at page 11, great read and info(wish i had chose a 1941/42 build now)
I have a few questions that i hope you guys can answer or point me in the direction of sources.
1939 would she have been in...... Prewar #5 Standard Navy Gray and Prewar #20 Standard Deck Gray ?
What light AA weapons were carried at this time ?
What work needs to be done on the island ?

Happy Modeling

John
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Tracy White »

kidcurrie42 wrote:1939 would she have been in...... Prewar #5 Standard Navy Gray and Prewar #20 Standard Deck Gray ?
Yes, except for the flight deck which would have been mahagony flight deck stain and yellow deck markings. Similar to this.
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
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kidcurrie42
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by kidcurrie42 »

Thanks Tracy for that info, as i said in my last post, i read pages 1-11 last night, if i had gone to page 12 i would have found my answer to the light AA questions, Thanks Martin :thumbs_up_1:

Happy Modeling

John
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kidcurrie42
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by kidcurrie42 »

Can someone please confirm the following info as being correct or not........

USS Lexington CV-2, 1939 light AA fit,

Pt and Stbd fwd platforms, each held 4 x 0.5" MG
Funnel platform 6 x 0.5" MG each side.
Pt and Stbd Aft platforms, each held 4 x 0.5" MG

Many Thanks

John
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Dick J
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Dick J »

kidcurrie42 wrote:Can someone please confirm the following info as being correct or not........
You have the correct number (28) and the correct positions.
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kidcurrie42
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by kidcurrie42 »

Thanks Dick, just got to enlarge those aft sponsons then i guess :thumbs_up_1:

Happy Modeling

John
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Jon Barry

Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Jon Barry »

Just getting back into ship modeling after a hiatus of around 20 years or so. Busy collecting all these dream ships that I would have died for back as a kid. :) One of these of course is the Lexington as she appeared when she was lost at Coral Sea. It seems that the mystery of the deck marking is solved. Correct me if I am wrong but there were no deck markings in 5/42 and the three stripes are in fact drain channels that end about even with the last island side 1.1 mount. I can get a pretty good idea of their placement from the pictures of Chris Smithers outstanding build, but aircraft in this photo cover how they terminate. :( Does someone have an overhead plan or shot that clearly show the start and terminus of these channels? THANKS!!!

Here is the link to Chris's work. http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Tracy White »

Welcome back!

I'm not convinced Lexington had no deck markings; we thought CV-5 Yorktown didn't at Midway until recently; photography shot on-deck and nearby when she was listing seemed to indicate a lack of it, but footage of a Wildcat crash during the battle plainly showed it was there. NARA images 80-G-16807 and 80-G-16803 show what could be painted lines. I have some plans I will look at later tonight to look at the channels.
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-Barbara Tuchman
jabarry

Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by jabarry »

Arrghhh, so mystery is not solved. Ah well, nothing like a mystery - especially when they can't be solved for certain. Thanks Tracy. I was just going to dig into all the latest Yorktown information too as doing her at Midway is another project building up in the works. Wish Trumpy would do a Yorktown, as it stands it looks like I have to do a kit bash with the Enterprise and Hornet.
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drdoom1337
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by drdoom1337 »

Can anybody with the knowledge, or both kits, please give me a comparison of the YMW and Trumpeter 1/350 Lex kits? I'm at a point where either may be an option and would like to know which one to vie for. :thumbs_up_1:
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MartinJQuinn
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by MartinJQuinn »

drdoom1337 wrote:Can anybody with the knowledge, or both kits, please give me a comparison of the YMW and Trumpeter 1/350 Lex kits? I'm at a point where either may be an option and would like to know which one to vie for. :thumbs_up_1:
I have both kits - I bought the BWN/YMW kit in 2002, before Trumpeter came out with theirs. The Yankee Model Works kit depicts the Lex BEFORE her last refit at the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard (PHNY), when the 8 inch guns were removed and replaced with 1.1 guns and the flag bridge was enclosed (among other things). With the YMW kit, you could do a Lex from the time she had her flight deck widened until right before Coral Sea.

The YMW kit is a BIG chuck of resin, with the upper and lower hulls cast seperately. It's very nicely cast, with an extensive PE set. It does come with the degaussing cable represented, but I removed mine from my hull, as it's too low and doesn't go all the way around the hull, like the real one did. There a few accuracy issues as well (boat pockets are too shallow, etc.). When the kit was released, it was advertised as a "Coral Sea" version, but new info came out after it's release, and it's definitely a "pre-Coral Sea" version (I'm planning on doing mine circa Feb 1942 in Ms 12, when Butch O'Hare saved the ship from air attack).

The Trumpeter kit depicts the kit at the time she was sunk, at the Battle of the Coral Sea. While 'generally' accurate (especially from the keel to the flight deck), the kits does have some accuracy issues with the island and the funnel. It also suffers from fit problems. Warts aside, I really enjoyed building mine. YMW makes a "backdate" set for this kit, which will let you make a pre-PHNY refit version of the ship as well.

A "First Look" of then BWN kit is here.

A build of the YMW kit by Dave Backer is here.

You'll find some builds of the Trumpeter kit here, here, here and here.

In the end - you have to decide which version you want to build, and how much you are willing to spend. With a little bit of work, the Trumpeter kit can be produce a really nice Lex - I'd go with that.
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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drdoom1337
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by drdoom1337 »

Money is not so much the concern because I would be trading items I already have for either kit, however one thing you've said has turned me off about the Lex from YMW, pre-Coral Sea. I don't care much for MS12 or MS1/5. I like the ship as painted in MS11, which it doesn't seem like that kit can represent. Two of the major things I look at when buying a kit are it's camouflage and it's quailty, and I like to have a combination of both. Another question is (because of my lack of familiarity with the ships of this class) what changes were made to Lex during her Pearl refit? IE: what would need to be done to the BWN/YMW kit to make it a Coral Sea Lex? My preferred medium is resin, and I noticed that the BWN kit has a very nice PE set included as well.
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by MartinJQuinn »

drdoom1337 wrote:Another question is (because of my lack of familiarity with the ships of this class) what changes were made to Lex during her Pearl refit? IE: what would need to be done to the BWN/YMW kit to make it a Coral Sea Lex? My preferred medium is resin, and I noticed that the BWN kit has a very nice PE set included as well.
One thing in your favor is that the YMW kit was originally marketed as a Coral Sea version, so you are a leg up right there. It should come with all the AA guns needed to outfit the ship as of May 1942. For more information, you'll need to get Classic Warships Lexington Class Carriers book, which details where the 1.1 inch & 20mm guns that were added at PHNY should go.

The biggest change other than the removal of the 8 inch mounts was the enlargement and enclosure of the flag plot - which is the biggest unsolved mystery regarding CV-2. Trumpeter took an educated guess as to the shape and size of the enclosed flag bridge, but no plans or good photos of that area either survive or have been made public in the 67+ years since the Lady Lex sank. So you could either mimic what Trumpeter did or mimic what Dave Backer did above, which is a flag plot about the size of Sara's, but with windows instead of portholes.

Dick Jensen could probably chime in with all the changes made at Pearl. Sitting here at my desk at work, I can't detail everything as well as the "human ship encyclopedia" can!
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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Dick J
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Re: Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

Post by Dick J »

There is a rumor that Steve Wiper is planning to release his long-awaited "new and improved" Lexington (only) book sometime in the next few months. He indicated that he would concentrate on Lex's last couple of years and include all the wartime mods. He is supposed to have found some updated info on the April '42 mod at Pearl. I REALLY hope it comes out soon.

Prior to the April refit, Lex carried 5 quad 1.1's and 28 .50's. When the 8" guns were removed, so were the 8 .50's mounted on the turrets. 4 .50's were relocated to the former boat stowage platform outboard of the stack, and the other 4 were deleted, giving her a total of 24 .50's when sunk. 7 quad 1.1's were added along with 22 20MM. The 1.1's were 2 ea in place of turrets I, II, and IV, and a single 1.1 in place of turret III (with a small clipping room forward of the new single 1.1).

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020237.jpg

Looking at the above link, you should note that, unlike the Trumpy kit's depiction, the splinter screens for the two 1.1's in the turret II location were NOT at the outer edge of the overhanging catwalks. They were vertically aligned with the bulkheads immediately below them. Also, since the turret I mounts and splinter screens are NOT visible in the photo, I have concluded that they were moved outboard, probably to the deck-edge. I would imagine that the turret IV mounts were also further outboard. I also believe that the splinter screens around the mount in the turret III location were flat-plate and squared off (like the forward ones) rather than being a round "tub". Unfortunately, with the currently available documentation and photos, this can't be absolutely proven.

The 20MM were located as follows: 4 in an overhanging platform extending out from the forward port-side boat pocket, with 3 more on a similar platform extending from the third pocket. (Boats were still carried in the other two.) 5 more were on a platform in the starboard boat pocket and 6 more were on the former boat stowage platform outboard of the stack. (The 4 .50's were forward, and the 20MM were aft of them. Note that the boat platform was slightly lower than the deck for turret III, not at the same level as is usually depicted.) There were 2 20MM on the platform that had mounted the after 8" fire-control "top" and 1 each on either side of the after flightdeck round-down.

I have always suspected that Lexington's expanded flag-bridge was much closer to Saratoga's than is generally accepted. I can't, at this point, accept Trumpy's depiction, in part because I doubt that the weight of the rangefinder could have been adequately supported by a roof that was held up by bulkheads that were on the outer limits of welded-on cantilevered platforms. The R/F would have probably needed more direct support underneath. Based on the verbal descriptions, the catwalk surrounding the flag-bridge would have then been given a "bullet proof" roof and "bullet proof" windows.

Hopefully, Steve's book will come out soon, and I can see how close my suppositions are.
falcon04
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Converting 1:700 Trumpeter Sara to late 30's Lex

Post by falcon04 »

What changes do I need to make to the Sara kit to do the Lex - I have the "usual suspect" references but am having a bit of a problem seeing the differences. GMM and Starfighter decals make this a must.
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Dick J
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Re: Converting 1:700 Trumpeter Sara to late 30's Lex

Post by Dick J »

falcon04 wrote:What changes do I need to make to the Sara kit to do the Lex - I have the "usual suspect" references but am having a bit of a problem seeing the differences. GMM and Starfighter decals make this a must.
Much depends on the specific timeframe. Prior to 1935, the major differences were mostly in the island. The wind baffles on the nav-bridge differed. Also, the DF station immediately below the forward 8" gun control top was differently shaped between the two. On the funnel, Lex's searchlights were about 1 level higher than those on Sara. Lex also had no catwalks on the inboard side of the stack. Those are the differences that come immediately to mind. As I said, it kind of depends on the year you want to model.
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