At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[Bob Dedmon]

I was planning on using a combination of Eduard and WEM etch, L�Arsenal 5"/38s, WEM 5"/51 and whatever turned barrels I can find for the main artillery. Anything more that is essential?

I'd recommend listening to Charles Landrum for the details but I'd also recommend using L'Arsenal 5'/25 instead as the AA weapons were 5"/25 not 5'/38.

[denstore]

I was planning on using a combination of Eduard and WEM etch, L�Arsenal 5"/38s, WEM 5"/51 and whatever turned barrels I can find for the main artillery. Anything more that is essential?

I'd recommend listening to Charles Landrum for the details but I'd also recommend using L'Arsenal 5'/25 instead as the AA weapons were 5"/25 not 5'/38.

Good point. My mistake, and one that could have been a bit expensive.

So a set of WEM 5"51�s open mounts, L�Arsenal 5"/25 will probably take care of the smaller guns, but who makes turned brass for the main artillery?

[Timmy C]

I've heard that Master will be making the 14" soon.

[JCRAY]

I got the main guns from B&D Barrels. John

[Tracy White]

Ack, sorry, somehow I got unsubscribed....

No answer for the plank length; it would be found in her planking diagram, but I haven't had the funds to pull that yet.

I would like to model Arizona in something lighter colored than the dark grey/blue that seem how she was looking in 41. To do her in some pre-war scheme, how much would be needed to change? What about the turret tops? I like when there�s at least something colorful.

Arizona's last major overhaul was completed in January of 1941 and she was 99% the same as she was at Pearl Harbor... basically you just need to leave off the radar pedastal and platform on the foremast fighting top. She was in this configuration in the prewar gray with the same turret top colors up until June/July of 1941.

[mark_sch]

Hello Tracy,
Where would you go to obtain this planking diagram?
Mark

[Tracy White]

National Archives. Arizona's is probably gone (destroyed) but Pennsylvania's is still there.

[mark_sch]

National Archives. Arizona's is probably gone (destroyed) but Pennsylvania's is still there.

Thanks Tracy.
Mark

[Tracy White]

Before I send you on a bit of a wild goose chase, you can't contact them and ask for reproductions of the planking diagrams; they're going to tell you to hire a researcher.

[mark_sch]

Tracy,
How much funds are we talking to get the information that you mentioned?
Mark

[Tracy White]

I don't know. Most researchers will charge you an hour rate (check the pages for rates) and if they don't know where they're looking it might take a bit longer. Ron Smith looked over Pennsylvania's info a couple of years ago for me and there were about 30 rolls of microfilm, and no index roll was turned over, so one would have to go through each one looking for items of interest. Cost of reproduction currently is $85 per roll: http://www.archives.gov/research/order/ ... .html#cost

You can unfortunately see why not a lot of this stuff is available for free on the internet.

[mark_sch]

Thanks Tracy. I'll look more into it.
Mark

[denstore]

Anybody who knows if HobbyBoss cleaned up the moulds when they decided to re-release the Banner 1/350 Arizona? I�m just curious, because I got the HobbyBoss version recently, and I think it looks a lot sharper than the Banner release I saw some years ago. Not up to today's standards, but better than I was expecting. Of course, I got Shokaku in the same shipment, and it reduced the shine a bit, but overall, I�m quite pleased with the HobbyBoss offering.

[djandj]

Greetings all: My first post here. I recently returned to modeling after a 20 year hiatus (hadn't touched one since my teenage years) I'm back, and have selected Dragon's 1/700 AZ to start back up again. I am thrilled with the involvement and sense of community here on the boards as it makes the task and experience of modeling that much more fun.

I was also intrigued by the fact that no one seems to know exactly what one of the world's most famous ships looked like the day it made history and was destroyed. (No Perl Harbor vets around to ask??) Hey, buddy, do you remember if any the turrets in the fleet were painted bright red etc.? Just asking. Seems like asking a few vets could clear up all the dispute, no?

But after all the detailed research and opining as to 5s or 5e etc. and the vertical colors, I still have a question about the color of the decks. The Pearl Harbor model (new one) seems to show really beige teak color stained decks. I have seen models representing colors from grey to dark beige. Yet all the color pics I have seen of extant ships of the era show very light tan colored decks and despite our attempts to paint individual planks, all look rather consistent. (don't see many pics of ships where you can pick out individual planks even at full size)

It seems to me that unless the AZ got all brand new planking only months before the attack, her decks would have been well bleached by the tropical sun and constant scrubbing with salt water.

What is the consensus of the group? If I want to make the most accurate representation of the AZ on Dec. 7th, what color decks? And really, given the scale involved (1/700) would you really be able to see individual planks?

Thanks in advance for all/any help

David

[Timmy C]

Welcome!

There aren't very many survivors remaining any more, and of those who are still around, not very many found it important to remember the shade of blue/grey that their ship was painted, if they remembered at all. The red panels was confirmed by a survivor who flew the scout planes on her (or another ship in the fleet), IIRC.


Regarding the deck, you should remember that the Pearl Harbour model is a "museum model", so to speak. It attempts to portray the ship as she should've appeared in a brand-new condition. So whether the shade of the wood deck matches other presentation is not so very important, as much as the fact that it -was- bare wood. Thus, paint your planked decks as bare teak (I think it was teak), adding whatever shades you see fit to portray her in whichever condition you want.

[Tracy White]

Seems like asking a few vets could clear up all the dispute, no?

In a word, no.

In many more words, you have to look at what each survivor might say or remember and weigh that against their experience. A sailor who spent time painting would have more "weight" than one who spent his time in the engineering section below decks. But all of them have to be viewed somewhat critically and dispassionately, unfortunately. Some vets will contradict each other, others will be flat-out wrong (describing the ships as black when we know battleships were not painted black, but at the same time 5-D Dark gray looks awfully close to black in the sun) or will have memories of later ships or paint projected backwards as memories become less clear over time.

I've been researching it at the San Francisco archives when I can (another trip later this month) and have come up with a couple of documents. We know for a fact that the turret tops were colored; here's a 1938 memo and here's the one that was in effect at the time Arizona was lost. The color issue is more contentious and at this point all I can say is that no one KNOWS what Arizona's color was. There is evidence both for Sea Blue and Dark Gray, but even with Dark Gray we have evidence that there were two formulas and no proof as to which one was used for the pacific fleet!

[djandj]

Welcome!

Regarding the deck, you should remember that the Pearl Harbour model is a "museum model", so to speak. It attempts to portray the ship as she should have appeared in a brand-new condition. So whether the shade of the wood deck matches other presentation is not so very important, as much as the fact that it -was- bare wood. Thus, paint your planked decks as bare teak (I think it was teak), adding whatever shades you see fit to portray her in whichever condition you want.

While I agree about the museum model - it seems that we have two options. Either factory new (i.e. Pearl Harbor model) or bleached out deck. Again, regardless of the actual color of the paint, I think we're pretty sure AZ didn't get a brand new teak deck a few months before the attack, so it would most assuredly have been bleached light tan to off white by the time of the attack right? With all the detail we go through to make sure our models look EXACTLY like she did on the day of the attack, it doesn't make much sense to paint a beautiful, rich dark teak on the deck if what we are trying to represent is the exact condition of the ship at the time of the attack.

[Timmy C]

I personally haven't seen very many models on here of the Arizona with a darker wood deck - most of them seem to be fairly pale; however, water does make otherwise pale decks very dark, and so some models may reflect that.

The main thing about colour is this: there's blue, there's grey, and there's bare teak. While arguments may arise between modelers about which of those colours were applied, there is generally much more "leniency" (no one's forcing the modeler to do things one way or another) regarding how the modelers wishes to portray that particular blue, grey, or teak. At least, that's how I see it, anyway

[Tracy White]

Yet all the color pics I have seen of extant ships of the era show very light tan colored decks and despite our attempts to paint individual planks, all look rather consistent. (don't see many pics of ships where you can pick out individual planks even at full size)

Didn't have a chance to track this down earlier:
.
Click to enlarge. ANd it's a cruiser, not the stern of Idaho.

[Charles Landrum]

Properly maintained teak decks when dry tended to be bleached out due to the sun, saltwater and sanding by holystone. Here are contrasting images of USS Texas with a wet deck and a dry deck. I replicated a pale deck with paint and broke up the monotony of color by spray-painting different shades of tan. Here are two links to color pics of the decks of USS Texas in 1941. Looking at the BB pic above my guess is that it was recently wet.
http://www.usstexasbb35.com/All-Photos/ ... 0169.4.jpg
http://www.usstexasbb35.com/All-Photos/ ... 0169.6.jpg