Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Capt652]

One other question...

What is that chain or cable that one sees on the bow running out the front fairleader? chock? down into the water ahead of the bow and attaching somewhere underwater?

Thanks

[Tracy White]

Paravane chain. The paravanes themselves were stored under the flight deck on the forward bulkhead (not suport, but the actual bulkhead that was the forward enclosed area).

Not sure how well this will link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paravane_(weapon)

[Capt652]

Hi Tracy and all,

I just spent some time reading through the 34 pages of great tips on details and I found a picture on page 22 from AndrexP showing the bow of his great build showing a chain hanging down from the top of the bow and attached to the bottom of the leading edge.... That's what I'm wondering about. I see that chain cutting through the water on actual pictures of carriers underway. Any ideas on what that is for and how was it attached to the bottom of the bow?

Thanks

[Tracy White]

Like I said before... it's chains for the paravanes.

It was fairly common on larger USN ships in WWII.. you can see them on Pennsylvania in 1944 and on the below shot I found of Colorado, which should explain somewhat how they were mounted on the bow... although the Essex class' was a bit different:

[Capt652]

Wow Tracy!

How do you have access to all the info and great pictures? Thanks so much for your patience and expertise. I don't which is more fun, building an accurate model or learning all the technology...

Please let us all know when your book will be out, I'll be in line for a copy.

Is it OK to post a few 'pictures in progress' of my build? Should I put them here or in the gallery?

Thanks again for clearing up the paravane issue for me.

[Tracy White]

Hey Capt. Pictures would be great if they're going to stick around, but if you use a hosting service that cleans them out after a while we'd probably prefer them in the picture post area with a link to that thread. Theycan be highly inspirational!

I live in Seattle (EG48 is the old Navy filing system code for Washington) and we have a local branch of the National Archives here. I am fortunate that this branch contains SOME of the records of Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, where a lot of the heavy WWII work on Essex Class carriers was done. So, for the last couple of years I've been spending the second saturday of each month in there researching. Going there today in fact for a short session (unfortunately short, and unfortunately the first time I've been able to this year).

I have access to a wealth of information there, but there are frustrating gaps as not everything was turned over, or if it was some came here and some went back to the main archives branch at College Park. Some ships I have the departure reports that list EVERYTHING that was done during an overhaul, but some I don't. Hancock's sole overhaul, for example, was done at Pearl Harbor, not PSNS. North Carolina had some work done there as well and they forwarded on the paperwork to PSNS as it was the ship's "home yard" but I have found no such work for Hancock so all I really have to go on for her is a series of 1946 photos showing her being decommissioned.

So, so near and yet so far in many cases.

The book is in progress but I really don't have a date for it.. part of the hold up is the sheer amount of data I have to go through and the details still unresollved. Another is that I want to provide isometric drawings of some of the before/after type changes in the class and I'm no artist myself and lack the capital at this point to pay very much to have it done.

Modeling for me is as much about the history of a subject as anything. When I look at a model I want to know more... what ship was this, what did she and her crew do? What makes her interesting? If I find a ship interesting... I want to spend the time to build her right in honor of her crew and history. The Essex class were important ships, and while I'm not belittling the service of any other class or type, I'm happy we've made this the most viewed thread here.

[Capt652]

Tracy, just one more thought on paravanes...

After looking at the Wikipedia story and seeing what a paravane looks like, I went to Navsource and on the Shangri-la page picture #NS 023840 shows a couple of sailors holding a paravane over the railing on the port side.

I looked at that picture a million times, but didn't know what I was looking at!

Knowledge is cool. Thanks

[Tracy White]

L'Arsenal also sells some Resin and Photo-etch ones.

Guys.... thank YOU for asking the questions and working towards building better models; we all benefit from that!

[Bunzov Steele]

Hi Guys,

I've made my way through the entire thread before asking my questions. I do hope I'm not repeating anything that's been previously asked.

If I'm looking to build the USS Intrepid CV-11 (era not set yet, but definitely during WWII 1943-1945) for a WWII veteran who served aboard her. I have the Trumpeter 1:30 USS Essex CV-9 kit. As a consequence, I was wondering what types of books, blueprints, etc. would I need? I've already started looking for John Roberts' Anatomy of the Ship: The Aircraft Carrier USS Inrepid.

Also, what sorts of aftermarket parts and decals would you recommend? GMM and White Ensign both have considerable photoetched brass sets, and I was wondering if you had any comments on the respective advantages and disadvantages of the sets. In addition, since I've done considerable scratchbuilding in the past, would I need the resin upgrades or brass barrels? I understand the need for turned brass battleship gun barrels, but carriers had 5 inch and smaller guns, which might not need that kind of approach. Finally, what are your opinions on the laser-etched balsa decks? I've been very impressed with the detail on the original deck, and was wondering if it was even necessary to replace it (trying to keep costs reasonable).

I thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Bunz

[Ron Smith]

Also, what sorts of aftermarket parts and decals would you recommend? GMM and White Ensign both have considerable photoetched brass sets, and I was wondering if you had any comments on the respective advantages and disadvantages of the sets. In addition, since I've done considerable scratchbuilding in the past, would I need the resin upgrades or brass barrels? I understand the need for turned brass battleship gun barrels, but carriers had 5 inch and smaller guns, which might not need that kind of approach. Finally, what are your opinions on the laser-etched balsa decks? I've been very impressed with the detail on the original deck, and was wondering if it was even necessary to replace it (trying to keep costs reasonable).
Bunz

General, not Intrepid specific answers:

The PE answer is difficult, both are very good. What would decide it for me is "are you going to replace the catwalks with perforated PE catwalks?" If the answer to that is yes, I prefer the WEM.

Trumpeter is notoriously weak on armaments. At a minimum I'd use L'Arsenal replacements for the 5" and 20mm guns. IIRC the kit's turrets are decent but the barrels could be better. Which set of 20mm's you choose will depend on your tolerance for "fiddlyness", The original low numbered set is good with slightly less detail than the later high numbered set (do not confuse with the newest set of twin 20mm's). Once you get the knack of bending the gun cradle, it's almost impossible to have the gunshields mount at anything but the correct angle. That's a big payoff on ships that had large galleries of 20mm's.

You can use the kit's 40mm's if you dress them up with either GMM or WEM PE. The L'Arsenal guns are much nicer but will add expense, the resin barrels are somewhat Fragile too.

One bugaboo to look for, the early runs of Essex kits lacked the flighdeck round downs on the ends, quarter round styrene will fix it.

[ModelMonkey]

Interesting view of the underside of USS Antietam's deck-edge elevator while the ship was painted in WWII camouflage. The underside of the deck-edge elevator appears to be painted white. Were her sisters so painted? Any comments?

[Tracy White]

Steve: Counter-shading was authorized with dazzle schemes. Doesn't mean it always happened. Some areas of the October CV-10 shots I have appear to have it, others don't, and the ones that do are where there was light paint in the camouflage anyway, so it doesn't appear to me that she had a white elevator underside. I could be wrong!

Regarding the Intrepid..
The AOTS Intrepid book is an excellent start. "Warship Perspectives: Essex Class Carriers in World War Two" is another but I only see one picture that might be of use that's not in the AOTS book; one of Intrepid's original radar rig.

There are so many good sets one can use to add to their Essex class that it's hard to know where to start or end. What Ron mentioned is certainly good; I might also add some L'Arsenal Mk 51 directors and bits and chocks.

In my opinion the Trumpeter Essex decks are good enough to not need the wood deck... the only advantage the wood deck has is that it has the arrestor gear etched into the deck as well. But it's a different medium and so there are issues with attaching that have to be worked through. Not show stoppers at all, just a little more work than the regular deck. Best advice for the trumpeter decks is to cut those durned locating tabs off.

[Bunzov Steele]

Thanks Ron and Tracy for your input on the materials I�ll need to build CV-11. At the moment, I�m leaning towards building Intrepid as she was prior to October 30, 1944. That way, she�ll still be wearing the visually striking MS 32/3a camouflage, and it�ll be prior to the kamikaze hits (I�d prefer not to model that).

Ron, do you prefer WEM�s perforated catwalks to GMM�s? Is that why you give the edge to WEM for the photoetch? I�ll go with your advice, but I was just curious about your reasons.

As for L�Arsenal�s stuff, does anyone know who their stateside vendor is? I visited their website, but I don�t know French. As a consequence, even the English version is a bit confusing (I could swear I saw doubles of items on the site with different catalog numbers). Ron, would you prefer L�Arsenal�s 20 mm guns to the photoetch WEM and GMM replacements? I�ll have to think about the 40 mm and 5 inch guns, but I might be able to go with the replacements.

Tracy, aside from the Mk 51 fire directors, would you recommend the Mk 37�s, whale boats, and balsa rafts?

I was thinking the balsa decks, though nice, might introduce their own set of problems. As a consequence, I was thinking of going without them. Tracy, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by the arrestor gear being etched into the balsa deck? Can that be reproduced with very fine wire?

Thanks again for all your assistance, guys.


Bunz

[Tracy White]

You can get them from a couple of different places but my favorite is Randy at ShipCamouflage.com. He doesn't list prices but they're the best.

The whaleboats and rafts certainly are nice, but not as necessary in my opinion.

The arresting gear would require wire and some thing plastic stock to make disk and some rectangular shapes.

[ModelMonkey]

The amazing Pierre Marchal has done it again, this time a scratch-built 1/500 scale USS Ticonderoga:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

[Ron Smith]

Thanks Ron and Tracy for your input on the materials I�ll need to build CV-11.

Ron, do you prefer WEM�s perforated catwalks to GMM�s? Is that why you give the edge to WEM for the photoetch? I�ll go with your advice, but I was just curious about your reasons.

As for L�Arsenal�s stuff, does anyone know who their stateside vendor is? I visited their website, but I don�t know French. As a consequence, even the English version is a bit confusing (I could swear I saw doubles of items on the site with different catalog numbers). Ron, would you prefer L�Arsenal�s 20 mm guns to the photoetch WEM and GMM replacements? I�ll have to think about the 40 mm and 5 inch guns, but I might be able to go with the replacements.

Tracy, forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by the arrestor gear being etched into the balsa deck? Can that be reproduced with very fine wire?

You're welcome.

I prefer the WEM perforated catwalks and just as importantly the instructions. No offens to GMM but WEM's instructions are generally much clearer.

I can't read French either but if the item description is underlined just click for a picture. I haven't used near as many WEM 20mm's as I have L'Arsenal but I do fin the latter to be easier to get consistent shield angles with.

Arrestor gear can be made from wire, I use 5/0 stainless steel suture painted with MM metallizer titanium. That's what the standing rigging on Reuben James is.

[Bunzov Steele]

Thanks for your responses on the USS Intrepid CV-9! I'll take your advice, Ron and Tracy, and go with the L'Arsenal parts. One question I do have is what's the difference between the 20 mm Oerlikons? L'Arsenal has two single Oerlikon variants, AC 350 01 and AC 350 38. Does anyone know what the difference is?

Also, I'm slowly piecing together the Intrepid's armament as of October 1944, but I'm uncertain about how many 20 mm Oerlikon "galleries" there were, and how many guns. Also, I'm assuming they used the singles instead of double Oerlikon mounts. I'm sure the AOTS book will answer my questions, but I haven't gotten it quite yet (am hoping to trade for it first). Thanks again, Guys!


Bunz

[MartinJQuinn]

L'Arsenal has two single Oerlikon variants, AC 350 01 and AC 350 38. Does anyone know what the difference is?

IIRC, set 350 38 is a new, revised set. The first set was nice, but a bit fiddly to put together.

[Tracy White]

as of October 1944

One thing you'll have to plan out is your Quad 40 arrangement. At this time she had the extra quads on the port and starboard side, but *NOT* the dual quad mounts on the stern; she still had just the single. This is important as no Trumpeter kit produces this configuration. You'll either have to buy an extra kit, scratch build a single stern mount for the Franklin/Yorktown kit, or a double plus a lot of extra quad 40 mounts for the Essex kit.

[Bunzov Steele]

Thanks again for the advice, Tracy. I'm thinking middle of October 1944, so I've heard Intrepid had only a single quad 20 mm mount in the rear. That actually works out well, as it'll be slightly less to build, and aethetically balanced.

Bunz