Calling all South Dakota-class (BB-57) fans!

[Rob Jansen]

I would go with the Alabama, I am doing an early (1942) Indiana and was able to get a hold of a Yankee Model Works conversion for my Massachusetts. All four of the South Dakota's were unique but the Alabama was the newest and so has many of the eventual changes that were made to them during the war (removal of boat cranes etc). the Massachusetts is a Post-War fit and really not a good match for even a late WWII Massachusetts... Either way there's a lot of modifications to build the unique or period AA load out. Just my 2 cents. Cheers.

[alexkon3]

Hey! I wonder if anyone of you knows the answer to a question I have. USS Alabama got her bridge enclosed during a refit in Bremerton, WA between Jan-Mar 1945. USS Massachusetts Bridge was enclosed after the war in 1946. But does anyone know when USS South Dakota and USS Indiana got their bridges enclosed? Did they also get them only after the war or did they get it enclosed before the end? I know that Big Mammie used awnings on the bridge, tied down with a few poles welded to the bridge walkway late in the war but I'm talking about the real enclosed bridge

[Timmy C]

You should look through the Navsource photos - South Dakota still had the awning-style enclosure when she entered mothballs in '46: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015710.jpg

Similarly for Indiana: http://navsource.org/archives/01/058/015814.jpg (pic's from '63, during scrapping)

[richard le blanc]

This is BB-59 ma. I 'am working on All scratch built original ,this is out of mold hull and deck ,superstructure and deck equipment
all 3d printed . I do have hull and superstructure in resin and epoxyglass .

[alexkon3]

You should look through the Navsource photos - South Dakota still had the awning-style enclosure when she entered mothballs in '46: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015710.jpg

Similarly for Indiana: http://navsource.org/archives/01/058/015814.jpg (pic's from '63, during scrapping)

What is awning in that case? I know the poles are welded to the walkway but is the top steel or is it something like cloth? I guess since it was still around in 63 it was steel? My guess would have been its pretty much an �interim� enclosed brige

[alexkon3]

Btw does anyone have a good Plan drawing of a SoDak class from the front?
like this for Bismarck:


I was looking for something like this for sodaks for a long time but I just cant find anything.

[Guest]

Looking for a 1 350 kit to modify my bb57 battleship to uss indiana any ideas ive been looking everywhere

[MartinJQuinn]

Looking for a 1 350 kit to modify my bb57 battleship to uss indiana any ideas ive been looking everywhere

Which 1/350 South Dakota do you have? I only know of the Blue Water Navy/Yankeemodelworks Kit.

The only conversion kit I know of was the old YankeeModelworks set.

[TOMLABEL]

Went back home (Mobile area) last weekend to see the Blue Angels' Homecoming airshow at Pensacola NAS. Afterwards I stopped by the USS Alabama to see how they were coming along on the main deck teak replacement. They started forward of turret 3 and have replaced starboard up to turret 1 which had its guns depressed. I am assuming they will work their way around the port side and then replace the deck around and aft of turret 3 afterwards. I thought it was looking good so far. Hopefully afterwards they will give her a new paint job.

Kelley

[Fliger747]

Just a photography note, note the the moire on the textured deck in the foreground. Caused by an interference between a regular texture and the regular array of the sensors. Film, having photosensitive elements suspended in the "gel" in a random manner does not experience this. Many cameras have a filter in front of the sensor which avoids the moire at the expense of lower resolution.

SODAK differed from her sisters in having two less 5" twins so as to accommodate Admirals staff. A testimony to how cramped these ships were to cram their guns and armor into a fast Battleship on a reasonably legitimate 35,000 tons.

[Mr. Church]

A question regarding camouflage of USS South Dakota herself.

At the time of her Guadalcanal duel with Kirishima in November 1942 was she still in the splotchy Measure 12 Modified Camouflage Scheme or was it the Measure 21 all over Navy Blue scheme?

It is difficult to tell from the few photos I can find of her from around that time, though these seem to be mostly from the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands just before Guadalcanal. Thanks.

[Dick J]

According to the Snyder and Short camo database, she was in MS-21 at the end of 1942. When she first arrived in the South Pacific, she gouged her bottom on an uncharted rock, requiring an immediate run up to Pearl, accompanying Saratoga returning after her torpedo hit.. The required drydocking was the perfect opportunity to repaint, after which she joined the newly repaired Enterprise as they both headed south in time for Santa Cruz.

[Mr. Church]

Thanks for that Dick, useful to know.

I had wondered did she perhaps get repainted during the time she was having her Guadalcanal battle damage repaired? But evidently it was before that as you say. Unless it is a quirk of the photographic film used, she does look pretty dark in the photos from Santa Cruz which would be consistent with freshly applied Measure 21.

[MartinJQuinn]

A question regarding camouflage of USS South Dakota herself.

At the time of her Guadalcanal duel with Kirishima in November 1942 was she still in the splotchy Measure 12 Modified Camouflage Scheme or was it the Measure 21 all over Navy Blue scheme?

It is difficult to tell from the few photos I can find of her from around that time, though these seem to be mostly from the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands just before Guadalcanal. Thanks.

File this under the "for what it's worth" category, and proceed from there. This article on the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, written by Robert Lundgren and posted on the NavWeaps website, relates the following encounter during the action on November 15th (pages 36-37):

At 0102 on Atago Lt. Yoshiro Watanabe next ordered to stand by for torpedo action starboard and engage enemy battleship (South Dakota) steaming on parallel course. �No, she is not making any headway he corrected himself next.� �Stand by to open fire with guns. Enemy ship bearing 100 degrees opens fire on us� (South Dakota). Watanabe had to make one more correction when he suddenly realized �No, wait the target is closing on the opposite course!�

In the footnotes (page 38), the author seems to claim that Lt. Watanabe's confusion with South Dakota's course is due to her (SoDak's) camouflage:

58 The South Dakota�s hull was painted with dark blue waves and a dark grey hull with sky grey superstructure. The dark paint on her hull makes it impossible to determine where her waterline is so determining her direction becomes extremely difficult (This paint scheme I believe is measure 12 mod 1.)

Again - this is up to you to interpret. I saw another source that claimed SoDak was still in her splotch scheme at this time, but I can't track it down. As it is, it took be awhile to trace back to this article, which I had read some years ago.

[taskforce48]

A question that has plagued me and my eventual build of the South Dakota in this time frame. I personally want her to to still have been in MS12 at the time of the engagement, but that's because I for some reason absolutely love the paint scheme. However, I am convinced that she was in MS21 by November of 1942. As stated the images of Santa Cruz show a very dark ship, some of this I am sure is due to camera's and conditions under which the images were taken, and the only other image of this time frame was her tied up along the Prometheus for repairs after Santa Cruz. I also call attention to the After Action reports, which is full of many pictures that although, capture a small part of the ship, build a larger overall case for MS21. I understand diagnosing colors from a b&W images is a prickly subject, I try to use the evidence before me.
My reasoning is as follows:

This image of the South Dakota reports to be in July of 1942 during shakedown cruise. Taken at a high angle on a bright day, very little of MS12 is visible. One area that can be made out is the face of turret #2

The Noumea overhead shot shows us the face of Turret 2 again in a high angle and bright day.

Things of note-
Shakedown cruise shows that the upper face of the turret had a band of 5-H across the top with some 5-H "splotching" on the starboard side forward of the spotting scopes. This is not discernable in the Noumea image at all.
Another thing I look at is the fact that the Turret face and the turret top along with all horizontal decks seem to show a similar hue, which would be inline with 20-B Horizontal and 5-N Vertical
Unrelated to the color, her Anchor washboard appears to have been covered up and additional 20mm's added

This image from her After Action Report(AAR) claims it was taken at Navy Yard, New York but it also shows that was "taken by ship". Either way, doubt we had a repaint as the splinter shielding may not have had a repair, but splinter scratches to paint would have been covered up so this is how she appeared in early November.

When we compare this part of the ship to the Shake Down images again,

Things of note-
We see where the three portholes in the lower right were a good reference point for a band of 5-O on the lower area and 5-H on the upper during the Shakedown, but is monochromatic in the AAR image.
We also see she had a pair of 20mm Oerlikons mounted on the top bridge level between the MK37 and upper Conning Tower

This snip of a June 42 image shows most of the face of the forward superstructure.

And this image from the AAR shows it from a different angle

Things of note-
Again using landmarks on the superstructure between the 2 images, we see the upper level of Battle Vision Ports is the point we should see a change from 5-H below to 5-O above.
We also see there should be a 5-O to 5-H line on the splinter shield of the 08 level, but in this AAR image we see what is shadows causing color tone shift

The fact that she had at least two yard periods after her shakedown cruise where we know she was MS12 helps push me towards the MS21 as well, this was the color scheme coming into vogue for the South Pacific. The images, as poor as they may be do seem to me to show a very monochromatic ship.

I also note that the Dwight Shepler painting of her at Santa Cruz shows her in an overall blue-grey. I know paintings are not much for accuracy, but when you look at his art of ships, he often is seen capturing camo schemes accurately or at least the impression of them. And, as far as I can tell he was there on a Destroyer during the campaign.

Just my $0.02 before taxes,

Matt

[taskforce48]

I also forgot to add these two images from NARA. While not definitive, add more to the MS21 argument.

USS Maury comes alongside the South Dakota after Santa Cruz

Church services aboard the South Dakota. I did not scan the caption card on this one, but the accompanying image of her taken from above turret 3 looking aft, shows Washington and Enterprise in the background so right time frame.

Matt

[MartinJQuinn]

I personally want her to to still have been in MS12 at the time of the engagement, but that's because I for some reason absolutely love the paint scheme. However, I am convinced that she was in MS21 by November of 1942.

I agree with both comments Matt. I WANT her to be in Ms12 Mod, for the same reasons as you, but she was most likely in Ms21. Be a whole lot easier to paint!

[Mr. Church]

File this under the "for what it's worth" category, and proceed from there.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to dig that out and post it Martin, very interesting and much appreciated.

I'd also concur with taskforce48 that she looks monotone in the post Guadalcanal battle damage photos.

So it seems there is some leeway barring any further hard evidence emerging.

[Csatahajos]

Also don't forget this pic, I think it is pretty definitive that she was in Ms 21:


https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collec ... 30054.html

[amiers]

Hi all, having a rough shot here, but would anyone have the Flyhawk 1/350 photo etch set for the Alabama? i need a copy of pages 3/4 of the instructions. I have tried Flyhawk with no luck.

Thanks