Calling all "Big 5" Tennessee-class & Colorado-class fans

[MartinJQuinn]

What about Model Monkey's 14"/50 gun barrels in 1/350?
You'd have to get the turrets as well

Thanks. I have Steve's turrets with the trunnions (sans barrels), as I wanted to use brass barrels. I e-mailed Master, as suggested, and they'll consider it in the future. Meanwhile, I'll have to scour eBay...

[bioshock73]

Thanks. I have Steve's turrets with the trunnions (sans barrels), as I wanted to use brass barrels. I e-mailed Master, as suggested, and they'll consider it in the future. Meanwhile, I'll have to scour eBay...

I have his New Mexico class turrets and barrels myself.
Maybe Master will consider doing 16"/45 in 1/350 for the Colorado class as well.

[Chris Preston]

Morning All,

Would anyone know what ship�s boats (and the number of each) were embarked onboard the WEST VIRGINIA in the fall of 1941? I�ve dusted off my Tom�s Modelworks kit and going through what I�ll be replacing with 3-D printed parts, and the ship�s boats are on that list.

Happy New Year to you.

Chris Preston
Victoria, BC

[Jon C Ryckert]

https://navsource.org/archives/01/pdf/014513.pdf

Found this on West Virginias Navsourse page. Right before the Pearl Harbor attack pics. Not sure how accurate it is though.

[Chris Preston]

Hi Jon,

Excellent! Exactly what I was looking for.

Cheers,

Chris

[ModelMonkey]

Jon and David are correct to question the accuracy of the Wiswesser drawings. The late Edward Wiswesser was a talented modeler and draftsman who made his drawings specifically for modelers at a time when authoritative official references were not readily available or accessible, and model ships were often made from balsa and other woods. It has been reported elsewhere that he had access to some official US Navy drawings at his place of work but was prohibited at that time from making copies of those drawings for personal use. So, he made his modeler-friendly drawings after work at home from memory. In other words, they were the best drawings that could be made for modelers at that time given the constraints Mr. Wiswesser was subject to. Since that time, as more authoritative references have been found and made public, such as BoGP drawings, hi-res photographs, and some shipyard construction drawings, the Wismesser drawings have not aged well. Although enjoyable models can certainly be made from them, for the sake of best accuracy, search for better references, if available.

[Chris Preston]

Thanks Everyone.

All your replies are very useful, and the information here is more than I have (and I thought I had enough).

Thanks again, and Happy New Year to all of you.

Cheers,

Chris

[Timmy C]

For future reference when the impulse buy strikes me...which of the Trumpy 1/700 Big 5s is the most accurate and requires the least corrections (mostly in terms difficulty, but welcome comments on quantity too)?

[SeanF]

For future reference when the impulse buy strikes me...which of the Trumpy 1/700 Big 5s is the most accurate and requires the least corrections (mostly in terms difficulty, but welcome comments on quantity too)?

I think West Virginia would best fit the bill.

Tennessee is also good, but I seem to recall there was something minor I had to tweak on it. Maybe the 4 tubs for 3" AA guns were in the kit, but not mentioned in the instructions, or something like that.

California needs some vertical ribbing added to her midship splinter shields, and the kit only comes with a CXAM-1 radar, whereas BB-44 needs a CXAM (no mark).

Maryland needs surgery on her bulges, so I'd avoid her given your criteria.

- Sean F.

[Dan K]

My views are similar. Assuming you want late 1941, I would add:

California needs the most work to be accurate. Her Navigation Bridge wings are missing, so that's more circa 1940. And she has big ass air intake vents molded on under the conning tower column, which need to be removed. This, in addition to Sean's comments on her.

Tennessee (which I've since built, but not posted a WIP or gallery yet) is missing 3" gun tubs up at the signal bridge level. Those can be sourced from Model Monkey.

Both CA and TN have incorrect spotting tops. The kit versions are for the Colorado class. Proper ones are also available from Model Monkey. In fact, their foretop comes with 50 cal. gun tubs printed as part of the top, so you are saved from scratch-building them. Absolutely worth it.

IIRC, Maryland is essentially good out of the box except for the oversized bulges. I didn't think filing them down was a big deal. The proper cross-section shape can be had.

West Virginia might be the best out of the box. The only real issue was that the signal bridge structure aft was actually just canvas covered, and the kit has molded it all as one sold structure. Cut away the sidewalls at a minimum, and paint that portion of the top off white. Or cut the aft portion off completely.

I think 3D printed cage masts far more accurate than the kit PE.

My two cents.

[Timmy C]

Perfect, thanks gents! I'll copy your responses to the first post in the thread for easy future reference as well.

[SeanF]

Another thing I just recalled about the Maryland: they removed the center anchor - capstan, scrape plates, and everything except the notch in the stem - during the same refit where she got her bulges. The 1944-45 kits have this molded in to their foredecks, but all of Trumpeter's 1941 Big 5 kits, including Maryland, have the three anchor arrangement.

- Sean F.

[Dan K]

A very good point about MD.

Whatever you do, DON"T bother with the kit Kingfishers. Just not worth it. An exercise in utter frustration. Better off with 3D printed versions from either Tom's (solid canopy) or Yao's Studio (open canopy).

Also, the Five Star brass set for MD/WV is pretty comprehensive, just very soft metal which requires patience. With mods, can also mostly be used for CA/TN.

[ArizonaBB39]

I reread the whole thread the other day and wanted to get some clarification on what the consensus was on Colorado at the end of 1941. Based on what we discussed it sounds like she was in the yard, but had not yet received her blisters, had aircraft handling tracks on the stern deck, superstructure was similar to Maryland's(?), probably had empty gun tubs where the 1.1" or 3" would be(?), might have been in Ms1/5(?). Anything I'm missing?

[Jeff Sharp]

Here is an interesting look at USS Tennessee. The photograph is signed by the sailor in the photo and dated October 1941. Clearly this photo was not taken in October 1941 because Tennessee was wearing MS-1 camouflage from May '41 until the attack on Dec. 7, '41.
The interesting thing to me about this photo is the presence of the degaussing cables along the deck edge with the added protection of those cables between the "Bits". The added protection was installed to keep ropes that were tied to the bits from rubbing and damaging the degussing cables.
Tennessee received her Puget Sound refit in June 1940. I believe this is when the degussing cables were installed on her. So, this photo was taken sometime between June 1940 - May 1941.
I am now on the search for positive evidence that USS California and USS Colorado also carried degaussing cables.
So far, we know that USS Maryland and USS Nevada did NOT have the degussing cables that the other battleships had.

[Jeff Sharp]

If you look at every pre-war Big Five kit ever produced to date, no matter the scale or manufacturer, you will see the representation of bolted on metal deck plating on the main deck positioned on either side of the Main Cage Mast.
Here is an example of what I am talking about on the latest release by Trumpeter.



I have never been able to find a single picture or set of plans of any of the Big Five with these metal plates in that place. This is a tough area on the ships to find good pics of but there are a few out there that shows NO metal plates.

USS California:



USS West Virginia:


USS Maryland:


So I decided to do a little digging to see where this feature first appeared on Models.
What I can find so far is that it started with the very first kits produced in the mid 1990's. In 1/700 scale, appears that it started with either Classic Warships version of USS California or Naval Works version of USS California. I'm not sure which came first. I believe Naval Works version was released in 1995. Not sure if Classic Warships version pre or post dates the Naval Works version but I believe Classic Warships kit was listed as a "Craftsman Kit".

Here is a look at both kits.

Classic Warships:


Naval Works:


In 1/350 scale, I'm unsure who produced the first kit, many came around the same time in the mid '90's. Classic Warships, Tom's Modelworks, Bluewater Navy, Commander Models all released versions of either USS California or USS West Virginia. All of them also represent these metal plates and they look exactly like the version that Naval Works created on their 1/700 kit.

It appears that this feature is simply "copied" whenever a new manufacturer produces one of the Big Five kits.
Ugh!!!

[Dan K]

It's not the only feature. As mentioned elsewhere, the Trumpeter 1/700 California has enormous vents in the wrong location on her bridge structure. This appears to have been copied from one of the 1/350 CA kits. Certainly the Blue Water Navy version has this.

[Jeff Sharp]

Hi Dan!
Yeah, I just checked my 1/350 Classic Warships USS California kit from the mid 90's and my Hi-Mold 1/700 USS California from the late 90's and both also have that vent you pointed out. Commander Models 1/350 USS California kit has it as well.
Ugh!!
I'm praying that by the time a 1/200 Big Five makes it to market, whoever produces it does just a "little" primary research and doesn't just keep copying these errors!!

[Dan K]

Yeah, primary research, what a concept!

So, for the record for California, as I don't think it was ever posted on this thread (and I'm not looking back).......

[Jeff Sharp]

Agreed! No looking back on kits already built! But for me, the next one will be an improvement over the last.
Here is a little more detail in that same area. Notice the placement of the portholes. Two that face out, just like the two that are higher up on the bulkhead. There is also a porthole visible on the backside.