Calling all New Orleans-class (CA-32) fans

[MatthewB]

I'm going to guess that if anything is mounted up there, it was the foundation for the SG radar. I don't think that she got an SG radar until after the November 1942 battle, but some ships were "partially" fitted for radar equipment during 1942 but didn't get the complete installation until later. Some of her sisters were noted as getting SC-1 (replacing the SC) and SG radars in August 1942 refits at Pearl Harbor.

I have a December 1942 photo of SAN FRANCISCO arriving at Pearl Harbor. But, I can't make out anything atop the mainmast.

Same here.

MB

[Tracy White]

best I have:

[Cliffy B]

Nice pre-war footage of CRUDIV 7 (CAs 37-39) in heavy seas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZE438Z64vM

[MartinJQuinn]

Nice!

[MatthewB]

Nice pre-war footage of CRUDIV 7 (CAs 37-39) in heavy seas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZE438Z64vM

My God that was impressive footage.

I just wish they had a camera in the Quincy to see the San Francisco.

I remember my only open sea trip in 1983 from Newfoundland to Ireland (on my first trip to Europe), we passed through seas like this... I strangely did not get sea-sick. And I cannot stand roller-coasters.

But on the seas... It just seemed like that is how it should be. An Irish girl who was on the crew told me that learning to deal with it was a lot like surfing (or skiing). That if you kept your knees bent, it would help you both remain standing, AND it would help prevent sea-sickness.

I had the strangest dreams, though. Flying through a crowded city, crashing into everyone.

But beautiful footage. It had some excellent footage showing the detailing on the exposed #2 barrette of... Was it the Quincy? But, still... Excellent footage.

MB

[Rob-UK]

Similarly rough as this lovely color film of CA-38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvZ3-vyrtkQ

While on You Tube videos, nice pre-war color aerial view of USS New Orleans (and USS Colarado) passing under a bridge in San Fransisco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkLuyXPy_eM

[MatthewB]

Quad 1.1" Directors?

On the Trumpter Kit, (and the Five Star PE detail set) there are tubs for the Directors for the Quad 1.1" guns.

But they are empty.

What went inside them, and where can I find whatever went inside them in 1/700?

MB

[Rick E Davis]

Directors for the Quad 1.1-in mounts were a mixed lot. The Mk 44 director was intended and used as a "stop-gap" until the Mk 45, Mk 49, and Mk 51 directors were available. The Mk 44 was a limited director with very few produced. Here is a photo of it;

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57mk.htm ...

I don't know much more about it other than the limited amount written in reference books and in the Navsource caption. After July 1942, more likely in the Fall of 1942, Mk 51 directors were used to control SOME Quad 1.1-in mounts before 40-mm mounts replaced them. The USN made a major effort to install Mk 51 directors on the BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyers in the Atlantic Fleet with Quad 1.1-in mounts (they had NO directors for their mounts prior to then) just prior (September-October 1942) to Operation Torch. I have never found photos showing directors being used on the Pacific Fleet BENSON-GLEAVES equipped with Quad 1.1-in mounts. However, the three FLETCHERS with Quad 1.1-in mounts did have Mk 51 directors installed.

There was another "director" that I have seen a photo of, I don't know the nomenclature, that looked pretty much like a Mk 51 pedestal with a short base rangefinder attached and NO Mk 14 gunsight.

What type of director and WHEN they were installed on NEW ORLEANS cruisers, I don't know. The first four ATLANTA class cruisers had two Mk 44 directors installed. In July 1941 yard photos of USS ASTORIA (CA-34), the director tubs were EMPTY. If and when she got directors in them, I don't know.

[Dick J]

At the beginning of 1942, none of the class appear to have had directors installed for the 1.1's, even though some had the tubs for them. New Orleans and Minneapolis appear to have had them installed at Pearl after escorting Saratoga back there for repairs. However, both also had quad 40MM installed in place of the fantail 1.1's at the same time. Astoria had two installed in the bridge tubs in her July refit at Pearl. The fantail tubs remained empty. Tuscaloosa had some directors installed by Oct of '42, in time for North Africa. San Francisco had none after her May '42 refit, but seems to have received some by the following November. Quincy had all 4 installed in her May '42 Brooklyn NY refit, but Vincennes didn't even have the tubs for them as late as a month before she was lost. So like Rick said, it was kind of a mixed bag. The type installed seems to have varied from one ship to another, so it appears that availability rather than "planning" dictated who got what.

[MatthewB]

Thanks... So leaving them empty on the San Francisco is fine.

That will mean, though, that I need to find something to use as directors on the Astoria and other ships (as well as having mixed weapons fits).

MB

[MatthewB]

Never mind...

The Trumpeter kits come with directors for the quad-1.1" and quad-40mm as well.

But, as has been pointed out, I don't need to worry about the USS San Francisco until after she was re-fitted in 1943.

I wonder if something more detailed could be made with white-metal?

We can get some pretty freakishly detailed parts in 1/300 scale for Micro-Armor. I guess it would be a trick of getting the mold-lines located properly, or minimized.

MB

[Dick J]

If you re-read my post, I indicated that San Francisco did not have them in May of '42, but seems to have received them by November of that year. The exact type is unclear.

[MatthewB]

If you re-read my post, I indicated that San Francisco did not have them in May of '42, but seems to have received them by November of that year. The exact type is unclear.

Hmmm..... Then the answer is a "Maybe".... I suppose the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal would probably have them.

And I suppose the directors would be the same 5N as the rest of the ship?


MB

[Admiral John Byng]

Cliffy B and Rob-UK thanks for posting those great videos! The New Orleans' were really handsome ships.

[MatthewB]

So...

At the back of the Hangar on the Pre-43 USS San Francisco, there is a tub sticking off the face of the aft bulkhead.

What goes in that tub?

Is it a searchlight?

MB

[Dick J]

The first 5 New Orleans class ships were built with range clocks above the pilothouse and below the after AA gallery. When those were removed, all of the 5 except New Orleans mounted a small rangefinder aft. San Francisco had hers level with the hangar roof. Astoria's was somewhat higher and Minneapolis and Tuscaloosa had theirs somewhat lower than the hangar roof. Quincy and Vincennes didn't carry either the range clocks or the rangefinders. Minneapolis lost her rangefinder when her first 40MM were fitted - in the same refit a 20MM was added on the roof of turret III and the rangefinder would have interfered. San Francisco lost hers during her Guadalcanal repairs and Tuscaloosa retained hers until her late '43/early '44 refit.

[MatthewB]

Thanks, Dick.

Now I just need to find a small Rangefinder to put there.

I guess one wouldn't be hard to scratch-build.

I had ALMOST gone ahead and glued down the hangar, which would have made putting in a small rangefinder difficult.

I had thought that might be what was in it.

MB

[MatthewB]

All I've got is a close up of the mast around the navigation level (I'd have to dig for it) showing repairs following the big Guadalcanal battle and a couple of May 1942 scans:

I forgot that attachments don't "quote" ... DOH!

Anyway... What kind of Radar is it on the San Francisco during 1942? I could have sworn it just had SC radar.

Is that the antenna shown in that second photo in the attachments (previous page - 19)?

I have a GMM USN Cruiser PE fret, and I see no similar antennae on the fret.

The one they have labeled "SC" is a tiny square mesh.

MB

[Dick J]

SC is the correct air search set. The CXAM and CXAM-1 sets were larger and as the "X" in the designator hints at, were "experimental". It was thought that so much topweight was not a good thing, so the "production" radar, the SC, was much smaller but tried to compensate with much greater power output. However, in practice, the return was not as good limiting the range. But a large number of ships had by then been fitted with the SC. That is why after Midway Hornet had her SC moved aft and received, on her foremast, the CXAM set removed from the California. Nimitz repeatedly told Washington that the SC was inadequate, so by 1943 a replacement was available, the SK. SK had a similar antenna to the CXAM-1 with the power output of the SC. BTW, San Francisco did carry the MK-3 radar on her MK-31 directors so SC was not the only radar she had at Guadalcanal. But the MK-3 (also known as "FC") was a fire control radar, not a search set. No MK-4's (AKA "FD") were fitted to the AA directors. The MK-28 AA directors she originally carried were hand-cranked and the extra weight would have made them too heavy to man-handle. The later MK-33's, at least the early open-topped units, differed from the MK-28 primarily in that they added power drives. The fully-enclosed MK-33 directors that replaced San Francisco's MK-28's after Guadalcanal were improved versions and did mount fire-control radar.

[MatthewB]

OK... I have found a suitable PE SC Radar set (that which came with the Five Star PE Kit isn't really very good).

Lion Roar makes an excellent 1/700 USN Radar set that I can also use on DDs and BBs.

MB