Calling all HMS York and HMS Exeter (WWII) fans

[Laurence Batchelor]

Dino,

My filing is all over the place, these might help also much detail visible here for you:-

Returning to Devonport (Plymouth) Winter 1939 - Note the repainting on the bridge face.

Damage after the River Plate action with this photo taken in the Falklands Islands just after when even iron plating was used from the SS Great Britain to temp repair some of the holes in the hull.

[Dino Carancini]

>image no longer available, link snipped by mod<


This photo is very interesting, Exeter had her first repairs in the Flaklands islands, but it seems that most of them were fake just to hide the heavy damages substained by the cruiser. In this case it seems that the B tower isn't operational.

[Laurence Batchelor]

This photo is very interesting, Exeter had her first repairs in the Flaklands islands, but it seems that most of them were fake just to hide the heavy damages substained by the cruiser. In this case it seems that the B tower isn't operational.

Yes Dino it was a bit of a PR exercise. I have clips of this happening on my naval time capsule videos. Churchill is there on the quayside in his car. What was done at the Falklands was just to make her more seaworthy so they used iron plates from the SS great Britian to plug a few holes and they painted her up so she didnt look so battered.

Remember the Falklands doesnt have a major repair yard and all they were concerned with was making her seaworthy for the trip home which is a few 1000 miles. Once they also realised her arrival was going to a hailed as the Royal Navy's 1st thing to cheer about they tried to put a bit of spit and polish on her so her damage didn't seem too bad to joe public. Notice how they have crudely repaired her masts. Also the crew were paraded through the streets of London at a later date.

[Dino Carancini]

...the great "dilemma"

There is always a moment that your senses are in contrast with some info.

Looking at colour drawings it seems that all the orizontal surfaces where covered by corticene, but looking at this photo I feel something different...



...I think that only small parts were covered by corticene and all the rest was metal deck painted AP507A, this seems to me more reasonable and in line with other Royal Navy warships...



... I hate when I need to guess

[Laurence Batchelor]

Doesn't that photo show a quarterdeck awning in place?

If so isn't that photo pre-war and thus there is no corticene yet?

pershaps wr can clear this up I know its his specialty

[Dino Carancini]

Looking at colour drawings it seems that all the orizontal surfaces where covered by corticene

...here I wrote wrong, sry, I was meaning all the horizontal surfaces not covered by wood, in this particular case I'm refering at the catapult deck and the area near the aft funnel, it seems it was painted in 507A.

Laurence,you are right the photo is the one in the warhip profile and is pre-war, are you thinking that corticene have been added later?

[Laurence Batchelor]

Looking at colour drawings it seems that all the orizontal surfaces where covered by corticene

...here I wrote wrong, sry, I was meaning all the horizontal surfaces not covered by wood, in this particular case I'm refering at the catapult deck and the area near the aft funnel, it seems it was painted in 507A.

Laurence,you are right the photo is the one in the warhip profile and is pre-war, are you thinking that corticene have been added later?

I thought it came into being generally at the start of the war though I can't remember for sure. I have an article somewhere written by Alan Raven about its use, and with some dates, but with the state of my filing at the moment I haven't a clue where I stashed it.

[wr]

It is almost certain that the corticine would have been removed because of the damage and the extensive repair/refit that the ship inderwent.
Replaced where necessary with semtex.
To do a proper job one needs some good aerial views taken after refit/repair, and none exist to my knowledge.
Good luck

[Dino Carancini]

Thank you for all your comments, in this case I'll be forced to "guess".

Dino

[Laurence Batchelor]

wr he's doing it as per Dec 1939 River Plate action i.e. before the Winter refit or the Falklands makeshift repairs.

Did Exeter have deck coverings at the start of the war?

[wr]

My mistake. In that case large arears of the decks would be covered 0in semtex. You will need the "as fitteds" to get the thing correct.

wr he's doing it as per Dec 1939 River Plate action i.e. before the Winter refit or the Falklands makeshift repairs.

Did Exeter have deck coverings at the start of the war?

[Laurence Batchelor]

My mistake. In that case large arears of the decks would be covered 0in semtex. You will need the "as fitteds" to get the thing correct.

wr he's doing it as per Dec 1939 River Plate action i.e. before the Winter refit or the Falklands makeshift repairs.

Did Exeter have deck coverings at the start of the war?

Which I have for Exeter but their loaned to someone damn!

[Dino Carancini]

...sorry but I must ask, what are the "as fitted" plans? I have read for the first time about it in the HMS Dorsetshire post.

Thank you in advance!

Dino

[Laurence Batchelor]

They are the most accurate drawings available drawn up at the time of construction of the ship. They are the final draughts of the ship in the design process and are meant to represent the details of the ship as she actually was on entering service and they thus provided a permanent reference for use by the Dockyards and the Admiralty when refits were undertaken. Sometimes also refit modifications where drawn if there was time, sometimes over the top of the as fitteds or more often on seperate sheets, however alot where never drawn or have been lost.

The responsability for drawing up the "As Fitted" plans was delegated from the Admiralty to the contractor in use and in the case of Exeter mine show Devonport (which is Plymouth) 1930. They also vary in small ways depending on that contractors drawing preferences and from draughtsman to draughtsman.

For big ships the scale of the drawing is usually 1 1/8inch = 1ft which is 1:96 and for destroyers and smaller vessels at 1/4inch = 1ft which is 1:48, exceptions being some coastal craft are drawn in 1:24.

They do not fully show a ship as in wartime condition though which for modellers is the constrait.

The "As Fitteds" plans which have survived the great purge in the British shipbuilding industry and Admirality/MoD dumping are now housed at the Brass Foundry, Out-station for the National Maritime Museum, Woolwich Arsenal, SE London. It's free to go and view them but expensive to get them copied.

Here is a photo of the building they are housed in which incidentially houses the largest ship plan collection in the World:-

[Dino Carancini]

Thank you Laurence for the exaustive explanation.

[mike mccabe]

Thank you Laurence for the exaustive explanation.

I don't know any more than when you first asked Dino. The problem with any of these large scale plans is that they are either expensive or difficult to get access to. Personally I always have to try and model on some sort of budget, I would have to ask myself pretty hard whether it was really worth the expense to get these sort of plans to clear up a fairly minor point on a 700 scale model. If I was researching a book then probably yes, but this is probably the sort of area where modellers and researchers would diverge. To my mind I would have to say I wouldn't pay upwards of �50 to check if I have the right colour on a deck for a small scale model, for a large scale model perhaps, but personally I wouldn't in this case.

Mike

[Dino Carancini]

I think the same Mike, Associazione navimodellisti bolognese sells something similar to "as fitted" plans, most of theyr drawings are copies of original, but in some case they are a bit expencive ( for my wallet ), anyway me too think that the documentation must pe proportional to our possibilityes and in part to the scale of the model.

I'm still studying the drawings of HMS Barham, using both Alan Raven British battleships of world war two and Profile Morskie, for this 1/350 long progect I'll be more esingent in fact of documentation, also if I still must to decide if represent the Barham in late '30s or "as sunk" ... as sunk sounds not so good to me, better to say as in 1941 fitting

... now back in topic I just fitted the wind screens over the fore superstructure deck ... I was waiting for this moment from the first day I started the Exeter

[Laurence Batchelor]

Usually large scale modellers like 1/192 stump up the cash as something that size, like in the Dorsetshire thread, one would find the plans indespensible.

However I find by knowing people and by buying 2nd hand is the best way to built up ones plans collection.

There's nothing stopping anyone to go and visit Woolwich with their digital camera if they wish to look at a particular plan set, but your right its a bit overkill for 1/700 models, though if there's nothing published on a particluar topic at all its a good place to start as they have the photo collection there also.

[phil gollin]

Do they let you photgraph the plans ?

[Laurence Batchelor]

Do they let you photgraph the plans ?

Yes with special permission