The Ship Model Forum

Iceman 29 wrote:Unfortunately, the French archive of plans has been closed on line from an "excessive use". But some plans can be found on different sites.

Hi Pascal,

Yes, I found that too, and Wefalck confirmed it. 'Vincennes' is truly a fortress again .

But if you say alternative sources: I'm searching for the design plans for the Bor�e/Pluton sub class of the T�m�raire 74 gun ship of the line. These plans were made by Jacques-No�l San� himself in 1803. (as he also had designed the T�m�raire in 1782, and many other naval ships of the period.) I know this from the Vincennes catalogue, but making the trip to Paris myself for just getting a view is not very efficient.

So if you can find an alternative source for these, I would be greatly obliged!

@Maarten:
I haven't found it, but I'll ask my French friends who are more specialized in this kind of ship.

Continuation from the stern:

Mooring bitts, rudder, fairleads etc..

Looking very good! One question, I see a rub strip external at main deck level, does the hull have a little knuckle here? Yes the rudder looks much modified for the current usage. Post war many Fletcher Class Destroyers had the rudders considerably enlarged to improve their maneuverability. At speed their combat turning radius was some 850 yards, the same as the Iowa battleships and Alaska large cruisers. With the adaption of hydraulic power for steering the larger rudder would make good sense for Hydrograaf.

The main function of a haydrografic ship would be measuring water depth etc. Two tasks here, navigation and depth measuring which would be more interesting in the depths of the "analogue era". Even the APA was fitted with sounding machines port and starboard midships. Astonishingly the USN Iowa BB's were equipped with platforms forward for casting lead lines.

Even a relatively humble ship can be very interesting!

Best regards: Tom

Fliger747 wrote:Looking very good! One question, I see a rub strip external at main deck level, does the hull have a little knuckle here?

Yes there is a rub strip, but only at the stern. I haven't modelled it yet.

Good point!

Fliger747 wrote:Looking very good! One question, I see a rub strip external at main deck level, does the hull have a little knuckle here? Yes the rudder looks much modified for the current usage. Post war many Fletcher Class Destroyers had the rudders considerably enlarged to improve their maneuverability. At speed their combat turning radius was some 850 yards, the same as the Iowa battleships and Alaska large cruisers. With the adaption of hydraulic power for steering the larger rudder would make good sense for Hydrograaf.

The main function of a haydrografic ship would be measuring water depth etc. Two tasks here, navigation and depth measuring which would be more interesting in the depths of the "analogue era". Even the APA was fitted with sounding machines port and starboard midships. Astonishingly the USN Iowa BB's were equipped with platforms forward for casting lead lines.

Even a relatively humble ship can be very interesting!

Best regards: Tom

Knuckle? I don't think so: Bewareof the crease in the plan, those b***s didn't take the effort to flatten the plan before scanning. Grrr, but by cutting it in sections there is enough to get it properly laid out before using it as ordinate plan for your frames.

Some details added on the stern today.

I added the reinforcement legs of the SB and PS bulwarks, the small doors of the bulwarks.

I corrected a few small errors in the shape of the stern, especially the longitudinal one.

I can't determine if the main deck was entirely covered with a wooden deck in 1910. The green painted deck is wavy, small waves to make it less slippery probably. The front of the main deck is wooden in the photos I have.
















Belgian or Dutch beer?

The forward wood deck.



I will probably reproduce this version, nice picture, both folding masts are in place. You can see that the chimney has been shortened on the current version probably to have less air draught to pass over the decks.

The other important difference is the extension of the forecastle, which has been closed in addition.

http://arnolddelange.nl/maritiem/



Inspiration:

Iceman 29 wrote: ...
I can't determine if the main deck was entirely covered with a wooden deck in 1910. The green painted deck is wavy, small waves to make it less slippery probably. The front of the main deck is wooden in the photos I have.
...

Hi Pascal,

Drawing nr 30 from the Archive shows the cross sections: on these it is clearly shown that the main deck is covered in 65mm teak planks 120mm wide. The top deck is covered in 50mm fir (not teak! 'Grenen' is the Dutch word for fir) deck, width of those planks not given.

Thank Maarten, I've miss the drawing 4330, i don't known why..

I am reassured, it will be much nicer with wood decks.

This plan is very useful, you can see the main section of the lifeboats, the cable system and the chain of the steering wheel of the bridge.

Hi Pascal,
just to say hello, didn't know you were active on this forum as well !
Nice stuff as usual of course, although I seldom venture out of "Coques grises" on LaRoyale...
Stephane

Thank St�phane, you're welcome here!

Here she is christened!

Fitting of propeller shaft, propeller, small stern bead, water outlet hatches, name. �

Hi Pascal,

Good progress! But one remark: I think you should switch the two screws (propellers). The RH prop should be RH turning, the LH prop the opposite. It's a small picture but you can see the difference.

Just as a little fun note to the topic: the Hydrograaf is used (almost) every year in November to stage the mythical 'arrival of Sinterklaas (St. Nicholas) in the Netherlands, from Spain', an annual children's event with presents andsoforth. The newer Santaclaus and his reindeer sled is a derivative from this event in fact. The Hydrograaf is then disguised as 'Pakjesboot 12' for the occasion. The alleged (incorrect) origin of the Saint is reflected by the Spanish flags. You can even model this in paper:
https://www.worldofpaperships.nl/Downlo ... NAL_II.pdf

Very interesting project! Great work!

I have that card kit for some time and thinking about a 1/700 model.

Hi Pascal,

Just one more observation. Your intention is to model the ship in the original configuration, right? One thing that changed considerably over time are the numbers and location of portholes (scuttles) in the hull.

For the 1910 configuration I think you can best refer to the deck plans drawings, these showing all the portholes on both sides. Please note there are several asymmetrical locations of these.

Maarten Sch�nfeld wrote:Hi Pascal,

Good progress! But one remark: I think you should switch the two screws (propellers). The RH prop should be RH turning, the LH prop the opposite.

Hydrograaf-1-225x300.jpg

It's a small picture but you can see the difference.

Thank for the picture Maarten,

I�ve not found any photo in drydock to known if the propellers have a divergent or convergent rotation.

Here is divergent. Nomadic propeller are convergent.

Thank Maxim!

Very small in 1:700 scale!

maxim wrote:Very interesting project! Great work!

I have that card kit for some time and thinking about a 1/700 model.

Maarten Sch�nfeld wrote:Hi Pascal,

Just one more observation. Your intention is to model the ship in the original configuration, right? One thing that changed considerably over time are the numbers and location of portholes (scuttles) in the hull.

For the 1910 configuration I think you can best refer to the deck plans drawings, these showing all the portholes on both sides. Please note there are several asymmetrical locations of these.

Yes, I'm going to change all this and follow the plan, that's the best.

It has 5 portholes in the stern and 4 in the bow at hull level.

It's symmetrical.

For the forecastle, it's asymmetrical, 2 to starboard and 3 to port.

I will remove the front doors from the bulwark. The flap will be in this place.

Wow! Lots of detail to be added indeed. Great to have such detailed plans...

Yes!

I worked on hollowing out the forecastle to accommodate the portholes, fittings, chain locker tubes, toilets, showers and washbasins.

I also rectified the configuration of the bulwarks, towards the original 1910 plan, doors, hatches, portholes.

This forecastle was originally open in 1910, then closed and extended later. You can see the added enlargement box on the more recent photos, not very aesthetic.

The walls will be printed separately from the hull for painting reasons and also to avoid a known 3D printing problem with the walls facing the printing plate (cushioning phenomenon).

I am always impressed by these 3D models and the rendering - as I have not mastered this technology (yet)