Calling all Imperial German Navy Grosse Kreuzer fans

[DavidK]

Yes of course, the pic shows my Derfflinger with 6 gun per side.

Greetings Christian

Wasn't sure if the pictures you were referring to were of Derfflinger or Lutzow. Here is one of Derfflinger after Jutland showing cutouts at positions 1, 2, and 3.

[ch hoeltge]

Yes this is the pic I was refering to.
It shows cutouts on No 2 and 3. That is the same as the kit.

I just found a pic during outfitting, there is no cutout on No 5.
And possibly on No 3 there is also no cutout.

It seems for the small lifetime of the ship there where many rebuilds .

Greetings Christian

[DavidK]

Yes this is the pic I was refering to.
It shows cutouts on No 2 and 3. That is the same as the kit.

I just found a pic during outfitting, there is no cutout on No 5.
And possibly on No 3 there is also no cutout.

It seems for the small lifetime of the ship there where many rebuilds .

Greetings Christian

This picture shows #6 and part of #5 on Derfflinger after Jutland. It appears that the deck above #5 is not cut out, since you can clearly see an overhang above the barrel.

Dave K

[ch hoeltge]

Thanks David for the pic. That is what I'm looking for.

In the book from Gary Staff is on page 221 a pic from 1915 where it seem there also no cutouts on 2 and 3.
Perhaps they where added later, because on Jutland they definitly where there.
I'll think I will close the cutouts for my 1915 Derfflinger.
Removing them later is easier than adding, but I'm on the safer side .

Greetings Christian

[DavidK]

Thanks David for the pic. That is what I'm looking for.

In the book from Gary Staff is on page 221 a pic from 1915 where it seem there also no cutouts on 2 and 3.
Perhaps they where added later, because on Jutland they definitly where there.
I'll think I will close the cutouts for my 1915 Derfflinger.
Removing them later is easier than adding, but I'm on the safer side .

Greetings Christian

The book that I have by Gary Staff is the one from Osprey -- German Battlecruisers 1914-1918, and it only has about 48 pages. The Derfflinger class is on pages 34-43 in my copy of above. There is another book: German Battlecruisers of World War One by Gary Staff, but I only have a scan of the cover photo, so if that's the one you've got, then I can't talk along.

I have a post-Jutland rigging schematic for Derfflinger, which appears to show #2-5 not having cutouts, but it is a drawing and not a photograph. I have seen one nice model done that way. Flyhawk went with cutouts for all but #4.

I have another post-Jutland damage photo focused on what I believe is #3. I'm attaching below.

In some of the full ship side views shortly after launching, there seems to be a lot of shadows over mounts #2-5, as if they were not cut out initially (perhaps there were visibility problems?).

I have a fuzzy aerial photo of Derfflinger after reconstruction, but I think it shows cut-outs at least on #1-3. Still, someone else might look at this second photo and say that it doesn't.

Dave K.

[ch hoeltge]

I have both books and German Battlecruisers of World War One by Gary Staff is far more informative.

I now get a picture about Derfflinger.
I thing the reason for this was to get a higher elevation and with this higher range.

In my point of view there are 4 main variants of the Derfflinger from 1914 to 1918.

- 1914 to 1915:
with 4x 8.8 kwk under the bridge,4x 8.8 Flak and 4 8.8 SK, no cutouts #2-5
- 1915 to 1916 Jutland
removed 8.8 kwk, but still with casemats in place,4x 8.8 Flak and 4x 8.8 SK, no cutout #4 and 5
- 1916- ?
closed 8.8 casemates, no cutout #4, 4x 8.8 Flak, tripod mast with high mast on top
- ? - 1918
closed 8.8 casemates, no cutout #4, 2x 8.8 Flak, tripod mast with low mast on top

As you see the kit a little mix with something from everything. But nothing that can be easily corrrected.
What I have to check are the other 8.8s as Flyhawk supplied 8 pieces of the 8.8 Flak, but the Derfflinger only had 4 Flak and 8 later 4 8.8 Sk.
But this is a thing for later.
As said, I now closed all cutouts on my Derfflinger and I'm now waiting for theri PE set. The same as the Gold Medal, but without the brass.

Greetings Christian

[Mr. Bean]

Greetings,

Everything I've read shows Hindenburg 8' longer than Derfflinger.
Does anyone know where the 8' were added?


Mick

[Dick J]

Everything I've read shows Hindenburg 8' longer than Derfflinger.
Does anyone know where the 8' were added?

According to Gary Staff in his German Battlecruisers book, the added length was at the stern. His drawings show increased length aft of the rudder resulting in more pointed stern. He says that it was done to improve the length to beam ratio to keep up the speed with the same power output, compensating for weight increases.

[MartinJQuinn]

the added length was at the stern.

Makes sense. Ships are ladies - and that is the first spot that starts to expand.

[Mr. Bean]

Dick,

Thanks for the reference,.. I hope to view the book soon.

Martin,

I believe you are right,.. but doesn't the width increase proceed the length?

Mick

[CLASSIC WARSHIPS]

Everything I've read shows Hindenburg 8' longer than Derfflinger.
Does anyone know where the 8' were added?

According to Gary Staff in his German Battlecruisers book, the added length was at the stern. His drawings show increased length aft of the rudder resulting in more pointed stern. He says that it was done to improve the length to beam ratio to keep up the speed with the same power output, compensating for weight increases.

That would be correct. The IJN did that with all four KONGO class "Fast Battleships" ! They actually added 29 ft. at the stern and increased the speed by about 2 kts !

I am working on a book in my "Warship Pictorial" series books about the German Battlecruisers. I have quite a few images that are not in the Gary Staff book, so I intend to make mine complement his. Of course there will some overlap, but not too much. Look for it late this year, or early next year.

Steve Wiper
http://www.classicwarships.com

Another good book about German Battleships !

[MartinJQuinn]

Some profiles of the ships would be welcome.

[ch hoeltge]

Should be interessting a new book.
With Flyhawks Moltke and Derfflinger 1918 to follow, there is still some demand outthere.

Greetings Christian

[Haijun watcher]

So let me get this straight, the Flyhawk Derfflinger and Lutzow kits don't have any PE railings? Not even with the special edition/premium versions?

It says on the Flyhawk Derfflinger thread that this kit only has PE barrels.

This product is a model contains metal parts,Resins and PE.8 main gun barrels of 1/700 Derfflinger and 1 Friedrichshafen FF.33 resin seaplane are included

[Timmy C]

They forgot to put a space after the period after "PE". So it reads: "This product is a model contains metal parts,Resins and PE. 8 main gun barrels of 1/700 Derfflinger and 1 Friedrichshafen FF.33 resin seaplane are included."

Here's the MW.com review of the Derfflinger kit: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

And my Lutzow 1301 kit:

[ch hoeltge]

Yes PE is included, but on the Derfflinger the set is not that complete than on the L�tzow kit.
And the Barrels on the Derfflinger kit are only in the first edition included.

But there is also a separate PE set available for the Derfflinger with PE .
This one I used on my Derfflinger. The L�tzow is ok with its PE set.



But there are the Gold Medal Sets with more brass and so one, of course.

Greetings Christian

[DavidK]

The basic 1/700 Flyhawk kit for Derfflinger had a PE sheet with railings, inclined ladders, bow and stern flag staffs, lifeboat booms. No metal gun barrels.

So let me get this straight, the Flyhawk Derfflinger and Lutzow kits don't have any PE railings? Not even with the special edition/premium versions?

It says on the Flyhawk Derfflinger thread that this kit only has PE barrels.

This product is a model contains metal parts,Resins and PE.8 main gun barrels of 1/700 Derfflinger and 1 Friedrichshafen FF.33 resin seaplane are included

[Haijun watcher]

Thanks to everyone for the clarification.

I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to buy a separate 1/700 Kaiserliche Marine/WW1 German Navy railings set like the one marketed by Big Blue Boy.

[DavidK]

The Derfflinger kit railings were 3-bar (ie 4 bars counting the deck bar), but some after action Jutland photos suggest Derfflinger may have had some 2-bar railing.

Thanks to everyone for the clarification.

I just wanted to make sure I didn't have to buy a separate 1/700 Kaiserliche Marine/WW1 German Navy railings set like the one marketed by Big Blue Boy.

[Haijun watcher]

Gents,

I just have a question about the photoetch railings of the battlecruiser Hindenburg:

Which of these generic 1/700 German World War I railings on Ebay are accurate for Hindenburg?

Big Blue Boy railings #1

Or

Big Blue Boy railings #2

Even though David stated above that 2 or 3-bar railings were accurate for her sister Derfflinger, on the other hand, Hindenburg had some slight design differences from what I read online at wiki, though I couldn't find any info on her railings.

Thanks in advance if you know the answer.

MS