The Ship Model Forum

Willie,

The sonar installations on destroyers have been difficult to track down. The equipment installed and the domes (different materials and construction methods) changed over the years and I have incomplete data on what each destroyer had installed. But, I think I finally got drawings with dimensions for the 100-in domes that appear to be "accurate", but not completely "engineering" style drawings used to manufacture them. For modeling purposes. I think they will do.

The dome is sort of elliptical in shape, but the forward "face" is shaped more circular and the aft end is tapered to a near point. Also, the bottom is shaped so it is "deeper" in the middle, but is more or less flat side to side with rounded edges.

The first two images/drawings, thanks to Ed Zajkowski from his collection, shows drawing views that come closest to understanding the shape of the 100-in long dome. The dimensions give you length, height, and width. Curve sections need to be "extrapolated"





These four views show the installation of either 100-in or 185-in domes on two different FLETCHER's. I the first two images are for a 185-in dome (more bolts) since that is what was installed on USS McDERMUTT (DD-677) and the bottom two images are likely for the 100-in dome.

Howdy, Mr. Davis and all,

Thanks again for your answer.

Rick E Davis wrote:I think I finally got drawings with dimensions for the 100-in domes that appear to be "accurate", but not completely "engineering" style drawings used to manufacture them. For modeling purposes. I think they will do.

They definitely DO. Actually, they are perfect. As usual, your information, pics and sketches are invaluable, and leave nothing to imagination !!!!

Very best regards from this part of the Atlantic,

Willie.

Willie,

I also used these photos that R.E.D. had provided when I constructed my SONAR dome for STODDARD. Had I been doing the 3D design/printing at that time of construction, I would have made a 3D resin dome with ALL the details rather than the one I've actually constructed out of basswood & styrene. However, since its location is in a rather obscure location, I'm not going to change anything at this stage of the build.

Hope this helps!

Hank

Hi there Hank and all,

BB62vet wrote:Had I been doing the 3D design/printing at that time of construction, I would have made a 3D resin dome with ALL the details rather than the one I've actually constructed out of basswood & styrene. However, since its location is in a rather obscure location, I'm not going to change anything at this stage of the build.

I think you should consider the subject and give a second try to this dome. After what you have already printed and shown to us here, I am certain you would do an excellent job with it.

After the pics provided by Mr. Davis I could start my own dome without further delay. Firstable I made a block with Evergreen strips to achieve the necessary height and width, as the length is much easier to produce. Then I refined the dome cutting, filing and sanding until I got the correct shape, and I prepared the rest of the elements afterwards. Then I added a 4.00 mm. strip of Evergreen all around. It had to be flexible enough to fit perfectly to the upper part, and I had to reduce it from a 0.5 mm thickness to a half, 0.25 mm. It was way higher than necessary, so it could be reduced to the correct profile on the hull, the most delicate operation of the whole process.

To achieve this profile I placed a piece of sandpaper on the keel keeping it straight, and rubbed the dome back and forward very carefully, until I got the suitable curves. I wanted to have a wider than necessary strip to make the process slowly, correcting both sides rather than running out of plastic fore and aft, what would have complicated --or ruined-- the operation. After this I only had to refine here and there to get a better fit. I can see now that I should have done all this this before the oil canning, but there is no way back to this, and the fit is good anyway.

I hope you like it, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

Howdy again :

Something I forgot to upload yesterday.

Jorge Juan had a couple of additions to the aft deck structure, one of them to cover one of the oblong deck hatches and the other for something that I have not been able to identify, with a further widening of the upper deck. This picture shows the items very clearly. It has been used over and over again, but once again it renders invaluable for my construction: Making these structures was easy, using 0.75 mm. and 0.5 mm. scraps of Evergreen plates and strips. Best regards again,

Willie.[/size]

Willie,

Your progress is looking good, as usual - nice job

Re. the SONAR Dome - You've done a great job and had I not already completed the one on my hull, I would have followed your construction only in 3D. However, at this stage of the game, I'm going to leave it alone - the bottom paint came out well and anything changed now would be courting disaster.

Re. your last entry - I can't see from your photo what the additional 01 Level Torpedo Deck addition might be used for, but I did notice a vertical ladder that is located on the after end of that small addition. As noted often before, many of these ships were altered as needed - it's possible that the equipment directly BELOW that overhang (on the main deck) needed some sort of overhead protection as it doesn't appear that the deck itself has anything located on it. Your representation is quite correct as you've constructed it. Perhaps if you can get a better shot of this area, it may give you a better idea of what's there. I did also notice on the corner of the overhang a vertical round stanchion (supporting the overhang?). I think the opening to the left is an entrance to one of the workshops that was usually located on the main deck around this area. As for the equipment, I hesitate to speculate as it could be virtually anything.

Hope this helps,

Hank

I'm always struck by what beautiful and functional ships these were. Even with a lot of photos, there are never enough. Most of us would overlook the maybe empty or not empty small cave on the main deck. When I did my Missouri I had hundreds of photos, but so many areas of the ship were inaccessible. In the photo rich areas, much detail could be fashioned, in other areas, total blankness not appropriate. Sometimes info for similar equipment is sometimes useful, though with time, few ships are alike, especially as years accumulate.

Your ship has a colorful history, how many destroyers have made a night torpedo attack against an enemy Battleship!

Keep up the fine work! Cheers: Tom

Hi there Hank, Tom and all,

Fliger747 wrote:Your ship has a colorful history, how many destroyers have made a night torpedo attack against an enemy Battleship!

Definitely not too many that have survived so long as well !!!

The next step was the squadron commander cabin, aft of the bridge structure. This is a quite tricky structure, as it is very frequently obscured by whaleboats and davits, stacks, masts, and so on. I have a good blue print and some pics provided by Hank Strub and Mr. Rick Davis (thanks again folks, for the 100th. time !!!), that allowed me to find (I hope) reliable dimensions. The most interesting thing to be aware of is that this structure is off centerline to Stb., and that it is crossed by the main mast, of course off centerline again. It is necessary to consider the upward lines of the main deck as well, so to find the corresponding dimensions took sometime.

This is what I was able to produce: I left an open space on the deck and added a mobile plate to cover the hole for the mast when it is set in place. I will add most of the details once the decks and the structures are fixed, so that I can be sure the structure fits the upward curves and make the corrections accordingly if necessary.

I hope you like it, and over to the next post.

Willie.[/size]

And hi again.

As I was fed up with the calculations of the previous structure, I wanted to do some easier thing, and thought of signal lamps.

Jorge Juan, as any other standard Fletcher, displayed four of them, two in the flying bridge and two by the signal flags boards: The picture is not very clear, but this other one of USS Isherwood shows clearly very interesting details: As there are no two identical Fletchers, Jorge Juan's aft lights were placed outside of the bridge wings, supported by triangular plates: Once the elements were clear, to make them was easy, using Evergreen tubing and scraps of rod and sprue: The aft ones were a bit more complicated, but again they were no problem: I simplified the work a bit, so they are somehow basic, but I think they will cover the gap.

Fixing them was no problem either. An added bonus is that as I have chosen to make holes, and these floodlights fall by gravity and they will never fall out, it is not necessary to glue them, so they have some extra interesting movement: And over to the next post.

Willie.[/size]

Hi all once more.

This week's production put together is like this : I hope you like it, and very best regards from this side of the Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

Willie,

Your bridge & signal lamps look really good - high quality work, as usual!! I'm glad I was able to help you out on the drawings, etc. for your commander's cabin - something that was a bit rare on the FLETCHER class DDs.

Nice to see progress on your build!

Hank

I wonder when the Commanders Cabin was added? Perhaps some ships were outfitted as division flagships, but because of top weight increases during the war (electronics and AA) it's possible this was added post war? The BB South Dakota had two less 5" twin mounts than her sisters due to space requirements for Flag and staff quarters and facilities.

Very clean and sharp work, one of the advantages of working with styrene! The searchlights came out well, having made a number of such items both traditionally and by printing I judge yours to be very good indeed. Each a separate mini model.

Bridge structure coming along well, an enjoyable part of the ship to construct!

Regards: Tom

What an inspirational build this is. Awesome job on the scratchbuilding!

One must have built such parts in this scale to appreciate the fine work that Willie is accomplishing. The completed ship will be both detailed and authentic!

Cheers: Tom

Hi there, Tom, Bas and all modelers,

Thanks very much for your always encouraging remarks.

Long time ago since the last update. I was away from home for the whole of August, and then with the beginning of the new school year, I simply had no time to build at all. Now I am restricted to the sick bay, and will be stranded for a whole week, so I will try to give this thing a kick.

Fliger747 wrote:Very clean and sharp work, one of the advantages of working with styrene!

I absolutely concur. This styrene is a pleasure to deal with, and as it blends wonderfully and cleanly with the liqu�d poly, it leaves nothing to be desired.

I am in the process of detailing the bridge at the moment, so the next step was chairs and small stuff in the bridge wings: Voice pipes and other stuff: The flag boxes were very easy to build, but extremely complicated to fix in place, as I could find only one single close-up picture of how it was attached to the deck and the bulwarks, and this had to be updated to the Spanish Navy and the height of the rear cabin underneath, not too high nor too low, without making a mess with liquid poly. But I think I have got it. And some more views of how the lot is, as for now: I will try to detail the cabin tomorrow, as I think I have gathered enough pic fot this, but I would really appreciate if somebody could add pictures of the inner sides of the bridge outer bulwarks, aft of the bridge wings.

Thanks in advance, and very best regards from this side of the stormy Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

Willie wrote:

if somebody could add pictures of the inner sides of the bridge outer bulwarks, aft of the bridge wings.

Well, this is not exactly an area of the bridge that you see a lot of photos, in fact, perhaps "none"! However, I have only one photo of STODDARD's stbd. side bridge bulwark from above that does show some equipment on the inside of the bulkhead just ahead of the stbd. flag bin - This was taken in 1966 or 67 so would be appropriate for your bridge, as well.

Nice work, by the way - hope this helps!

Hank

Willi! Nice work on the bridge area, especially the 12" searchlights and brackets. Hank's photo of Stoddard was interesting, as are photos that have been taken just of sailors lounging or at station, unintentionally showing details a modeler would appreciate. Stoddard's signal bridge is a different shape, with a taper towards the flag bag, but the shape of the reinforcing beams is interesting, a plain I beam with the top not curving, but just the beam connector (normal to the bulkhead) open and curved.

Cheers: Tom

Fantastic work! The entire bridge looks amazing!

Hi there Hank, Tom, Marijn and all friend modelers,

Thanks very much for your always very kind remarks. Glad to see you like the production.

BB62vet wrote:This is not exactly an area of the bridge that you see a lot of photos, in fact, perhaps "none"!

Hank, you are but very right. I took some pictures of these areas onboard USS The Sullivans, but the bulkwards were virtually bare around the bridge. The picture you provide is virtually priceless: not only a Fletcher, but an operative Fletcher, and crystal clear, on top of it.

I have had to delete some of the elements that I had already done, but the results are now much better. The reference had to be the signal lamps, that were placed in a distinctive, very rear position onboard Jorge Juan, so everything had to be placed accordingly. If you know the what and the where, the how is not complicated. No idea what these elements are, nor if Jorge Juan had them or not, but at least the effect is excellent --and realistic, as everything onboard these ships was US Navy standard.

Thanks again for your most inmediate help, and very best regards from the North Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

What was mounted on the bulwarks on the bridge will vary a lot. The USN changed/updated the "authorized" equipment as time went by. So depending on when the USN last updated/overhauled the ship transferred (in this case JORGE JUAN, ex-McGOWAN), that ship may or may not have the same equipment installed. As has been mentioned, few photos are available of this area on the bridge of FLETCHER's (or many other ships), I do have a couple of views of FLETCHER's after the mid-1950's (dtd 1956) bridge mods where pilothouse equipment was duplicated on the once open bridge front. Ironically, many photos were "TAKEN" from the aft end of the bridge next to the flagbags. The images I have don't show much of the aft bridge wings, but in general they show fewer pieces of equipment than Hank's view from the 1970's. The images I have from that period were from photos I found in Textual Records and don't seem to be generally available.

Also, the Spanish Navy could very well make their own additions/changes to their requirements. Plus it is possible, but rare, that crews may make minor additions outside authorizations.

In the attached photos, notice the differences between the two destroyers bridge details.

So you are right not to get TOO anal about what you don't have photos of for your subject.