Calling all King George V-class (WWII) fans

[Admiral John Byng]

I don't think that is the remains of the after UP launcher. In another photo I saw somewhere, it seems to be some sort of cabin with an aerial sticking out of the top. I don't know if it is some sort of early ECM device or listening station for enemy communications or what.

Both UP launchers were removed quite early in the war (1941 or 42?) and the AA defences gradually increased as time went on.

[Al Newman]

Thanks John, I think I've seen the picture your referring to but it's after the re-fit when the catapult was removed, Al.

[Quaestor]

I reviewed the Revell kit some years ago for a Dutch modelling magazine (MIP) and found that the kit actually portrays the King George V, not the DoY. One giveaway is the shape of the deck below the bridge.

Maarten, could you be more specific and, if possible, post a photo or drawing as an example?
Although I know the Matchbox/Revell kit is not the best in 1/700th, I might get one; they're cheap enough.
But if it's really Cagey Five, why bother when I have the Tamiya?
TIA

[ModelMonkey]

Seeking good photos or other references clearly showing the lantern for the 271/273 radar antenna, found on the foremast or between and above the forward HACS directors on some ships.

Have Profile Morskie and Kagero drawings, they either aren't sufficiently detailed or they don't match the few available photos.

Any help is sincerely appreciated!

[Cliffy B]

Do you need the installation for that specific ship or just the Lantern Radar itself? The AOTS Volume on HMS Belfast has a nice scale drawing of the radar.

[ModelMonkey]

The ship themselves, assuming the installations were nearly, if not actually, identical.

I believe KGV, PoW and DoY carried them for a time. Looking to design the lantern for 3D printing in response to a long-ago request that's up for design. My references are a bit weak.

Thanks!

[EJFoeth]

Try Anatomy of the ship: Belfast, p82: RDF Type 273 Aerial Lantern, turned into 3D by Thomas Schmidt here. The lantern is simply an enclosing that was first octagonal and later changed to circular to reduce internal reflections. I have one "nice" image of the octagonal variant I'll upload later.

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, EJ!

Thomas Schmidt does some amazing work. Truly.

[EJFoeth]

Too bad, it's a type 271... from Derek Howse's Radar at Sea....

Type271.jpg

[ModelMonkey]

EJ, That photo works great! It confirms the major structure of the octagonal housing, which I needed.

The 3D design you see below is intended as rather generic for use on as many different ship models as possible. It can be easily modified to a specific ship by the modeler, hence the absence of many details. The octagonal's framing was a bit of a mystery to me but your photo did the trick and confirmed what I suspected.

Brilliant! And thanks!

[Martocticvs]

First post here, so hi everyone.

I have a couple of questions about some details on these ships - firstly, the fore breakwater: on many photos, you can see that there are two openings to allow the crew to walk through to the forecastle & cable gear - on other photos, usually when the weather is bad, these openings are closed. When they are open, I cannot see any sign of the missing piece - my assumption therefore is that this is not a door, but a removable panel that was stowed away below decks somewhere? I've never seen a decent photo of this area so I can't confirm this one way or another. Also does anyone know if the supports on the after side of the breakwater are solid (ie webs), or just struts?

Second question: thanks to a post in the depths of this thread, I'm pretty sure that KGV was not fitted with the type 271 for the engagement with Bismarck - but does anyone have any references for what was actually in that central tub on the HACS tower at the time? I haven't come across anything showing it clearly in over 10 years of hunting photos...

[EJFoeth]

It's a simple panel you can take out; iamge one shows a flat back, some panels (DoY) have a reinforcement cross pattern. For some ships they store the hatch on the front of the breakwater; perhaps this is so for the KGV class as well.

breakwater_1.jpg

breakwater_3.jpg

[Martocticvs]

That certainly sounds plausible, but I can't see any sign of it in a similar position in the photos I have. Not seen that photo before though, and it certainly answers my question about the after supports. Thin plate webs with reinforcement welded to the top. Confirmation that the panel is simply removable is good though - thanks for that!

[Sutho]

Has anyone seen this photo before of HMS Anson.

Does it look legitimate colour. I would like to think it is not a colourised image but am not 100% sure.

[EJFoeth]

Looks a bit like



I believe both are paintings by Ivan Berryman

[SalamanderPete]

Hi people. I've been reading this thread with interest (and then decided to join up).

I'm currently mid-way through building a 1:350 Tamiya PoW kit into HMS Howe as launched in 1942. Chose that ship of the 5 due to family connections. One useful thing is I have a good 3D printer at work, so I can do things like the Mk.V HACS directors pretty easily. I don't need to do the auxiliary steering control on the aft funnel, as that was added during a later refit. Is there anything else, other than the radar aerials etc that I might need to alter? I have the WE photo-etch kit, so can select from that as appropriate. It's my first ship model since a pair of 1:700 Bismarck and Ark Royal probably 20 years ago!

[Martocticvs]

I just got hold of the Top Drawings book for Duke of York, and one of the views grabbed my attention: the aft bulkhead of the midships/hangar superstructure after the refit that removed the catapult etc. The drawing shows the hangar doors removed, and a couple of watertight doors added at the new deck level. I've trawled around for photos showing this area and haven't had much luck, but the hints I'm getting is that this may be incorrect, and the hangar doors were in fact left in place.

However, on HMS Howe, the changes shown in the drawing were definitely made, as can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB84EM-jGpE. To confuse matters, Duke of York may have been further modified post war to produce something similar, as hinted on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GtVEkiZH_E.

As for King George V, I have no idea. Does anyone know what arrangement both KGV and DoY had at the end of the war?

[FrancisMcN]

Second question: thanks to a post in the depths of this thread, I'm pretty sure that KGV was not fitted with the type 271 for the engagement with Bismarck - but does anyone have any references for what was actually in that central tub on the HACS tower at the time? I haven't come across anything showing it clearly in over 10 years of hunting photos...

This is the best shot I know of the control position for the UP AA rocket system on KGV at that time but it appears to just be a canvas covered sight. The picture is a scan of a part of the whole forward superstructure on page 78 of Norman Friedman's "Naval AA Guns and Gunnery" and is credited to the Naval Institute Collection. I looked at what I thought was their website to see if I could get a higher definition copy but couldn't find it there. Any suggestions??

[EJFoeth]

When fitted with pompoms there should be a pompom director (NMM plans) and probably a UP sight before that; I've never seen any information what the latter might look like. For some of the class that pedestal was replaced by a radar installation, but not all, e.g., DoY

DOY.jpg

The aft bulkhead of the midships/hangar superstructure after the refit that removed the catapult etc. The drawing shows the hangar doors removed, and a couple of watertight doors added at the new deck level. I've trawled around for photos showing this area and haven't had much luck, but the hints I'm getting is that this may be incorrect, and the hangar doors were in fact left in place.

The later-war KGVs are not really on my to-do list so I do not have a lot of info, except this shot of Anson so take a good look and guess...? It appears to be gone.

Anson.jpg

However, I do recall this image from HMS Malaya where the hangars have been converted and show the hangar doors as evidences by them actually not being there... (and a piano)...

large10.jpg

[Martocticvs]

The shot of Anson is interesting. I think that is the arrangement Duke of York had, as those horizontal lines match with what I can see in one of those videos. I would actually say that they are still there, though. That long box above where the doors were/are is the housing for the roller door accumulator. There is also a recess visible that matches the location and size of the original doors. It's possible that they replaced the doors with a solid panel I suppose. Those horizontal lines look like they might be bars of some kind held in brackets, although it's not very clear. Whatever they did, there's clearly no watertight doors in that bulkhead.

Nice photo of the HACS tower too. Interestingly, in late war configuration, KGV had nothing at all in that central position. I think the other three had this tub though.

FrancisMcN: was there a date with that photo? I notice there is a connection between the director and the upper bridge structure, which I didn't think was added until sometime later...