Calling all Scharnhorst and Gneisenau fans!

[manber]

Im begining with a 1: 700 scharnhorts battleship proyect but I need some pics for take an idea.
anyone that have some color pics. thanks in advance.

[Mr. Church]

Has anyone any knowledge as to what are the vertical tubes or pieces as circled in red in the photo (well screenshot from Youtube) of Scharnhorst's Anton and Bruno Turrets?

They only seem to be there for Operation Cerberus, The Channel Dash in 1942. They are not visible in photos from Operation Berlin in 1941 nor in photos from late 1942 or 1943 when Scharnhorst worked up in the Baltic and transferred to Norway.

Could they be tubes for spare barrels for the extra 20mm Flakvierlings that were embarked for Operation Cerberus? It is hard to find any clearer photo of them than the screenshot I have shown.

[MartinJQuinn]

WAG....they may be tubes to hold spare 20mm barrels for the extra AA fitted for the Dash?

[Mr. Church]

maybe attachable rods to clean the bores of the 11" guns? a gun cleaning kit.

I think the larger horizontally placed cylinders contain cleaning equipment for the 28cm main guns. These are visible in other photos also which makes sense.

[ninjrk]

Out of curiosity, is there any difference between the Trumpeter 1/350 1940 and 1941 kits? I looked through the instructions posted on-line and didn't catch any differences beyond the painting guides and even the 1941 version had a 1940 era paint scheme.

Thanks,
Matt

[seaphoto]

Does anyone know of a source for a large scale graphic of the Gneisenau's crest? All I can find on the Internet are relatively small ones, less than 400 pixels. Purchasing an existing sticker or other graphic is also an option. I would like to scan it and use it as part of my display for my model of the Gneisenau. Thanks for any leads!

Kurt

[DavidK]

Does anyone know of a source for a large scale graphic of the Gneisenau's crest? All I can find on the Internet are relatively small ones, less than 400 pixels. Purchasing an existing sticker or other graphic is also an option. I would like to scan it and use it as part of my display for my model of the Gneisenau. Thanks for any leads!

Kurt

I can offer this. A bit pixelated when blown up, but it's the best I've got.

Dave

[seaphoto]

Does anyone know of a source for a large scale graphic of the Gneisenau's crest? All I can find on the Internet are relatively small ones, less than 400 pixels. Purchasing an existing sticker or other graphic is also an option. I would like to scan it and use it as part of my display for my model of the Gneisenau. Thanks for any leads!

Kurt

I can offer this. A bit pixelated when blown up, but it's the best I've got.

Dave

Thank you Dave, very kind of you. Of course, if even higher resolution images exist, they would be most welcome as well.

Kurt

[pascalemod]

What is the most recent opinion on the final camouflage Scharnhorst had regarding the light blue color (bow, top of structures, as per Leon and Asmussen 1942-45 Camouflage book).

Is this now debunked? Is it viewed as most accurate? What has been the most recent view on how to paint her as sunk?

Starting Flyhawk's 1:700 edition with full PE... Wanna get the stupid questions out of the way first. This camouflage is the first one.

[MartinJQuinn]

The one picture I saw of the wreck shows the same camouflage pattern that's on the Flyhawk instructions.

I seem to recall reading that the blues have been discounted and that the most likely colors were the usual KM paints.

[pascalemod]

The one picture I saw of the wreck shows the same camouflage pattern that's on the Flyhawk instructions.

I seem to recall reading that the blues have been discounted and that the most likely colors were the usual KM paints.

FH doesnt have the black color on the bow, makes it grey.
FH lacks white contour lines in may areas - that seems off.
FH bow is not white, but also grey - against the norther camouflage thing they had.

I dunno yet, but to me FH right off the bat seems off on few key areas...

[FW_Allen]

Normally I'm involved in Hood colour discussions, but I thought I'd take a break and look at WW2's second prettiest warship's colours: Salmon , I mean, Scharnhorst. Basically, I built the old "plain jane" Tamiya kit eons ago (1980s/1990s) to represent her as she appeared during the northward retreat of February 1942. Unfortunately, the model was destroyed during a series of household moves. So, now that Flyhawk's EXCELLENT kits are out, I intend to build a replacement. I want to get it done before their new model of Hood is released later this year (because work on Hood always takes precedence over other projects in my house).

The only question I have is regarding die turmdecken, I mean, the turret tops. I'd always read that these were blue and any of the (then) few attempts at depicting the ship in said scheme always showed the blue as quite bright/vivid (a very pretty shade). Now that a few decades have passed, I'm wondering if anyone has been able to pin down the true attributes of the blue that was likely used? Do we know if it was truly bright, darker, more greyish, etc.? I know great advances have been made with Royal Navy paint colours in the past few years, so I am checking to see if any of our Kriegsmarine researchers have uncovered anything new on the blue used during "Cerberus?"

[Mr. Church]

I unfortunately don't have any documentary evidence or colour specifications for the blue Frank. I would be very interested to know more myself?

However this footage here may be of interest to you? It does not show the blue but it does clearly show Gneisenau's yellow turret roofs, a previous aerial recognition effort. Likely filmed in early-mid 1940:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKn0Z_e70sU

The yellow turret roofs look bright and vibrant and not sloppily or temporarily painted as such. The whole point of the coloured turret roofs was for them to be clearly visible to the Luftwaffe so it makes sense to have a proper paint job done on them. Indeed the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine learned the identification friend or foe lesson the hard way. The Kriegsmarine having lost two destroyers in February 1940 to friendly fire from the Luftwaffe and a minefield.

Operation Cerberus took place in early February, therefore dull and wet weather could be expected in the English Channel and North Sea at that time of year. So I would lean towards a bright and vibrant blue colour. You would surely want something bright and distinctive that would stand out clearly from good distances and not leave any ambiguity for pilots?

Funnily enough, today February 13th is the anniversary of the squadron's arrival back in Germany following Operation Cerberus.

[pascalemod]

Are there good diagrams of hull plating on Scharnhorst/Gneisenau class? Any full hull distinguishing features one must keep in mind?

[Guest]

According to Profile Warship No 33, "German Battlecruisers (sic) SCHARNHORST and GNEISENAU" written by Fregattenkapit�n a. D. Paul Schmalenbach and published April 1973, both ships were welded throughout. So as regards a shell expansion plan, it should not make any difference. If there are any then they are likely to be confined to the positions of booms and screw guards etc and the scuttles.

[pascalemod]

Thank you "Guest", so you are saying no hull plating on the hull to speak of?

What also makes me curious about the hull build:
- Are there any boooms on Scharnhorst in 1943 North Cape? Aft and stern (Stern I guess I mean the screw guards deployed in port, so they are there probably, but forward?). Or did they remove them as time went by?

[NigelR32]

Hi all,

I have a question that no doubt some of you will answer in a second. It's concerning the Atlantic bow on Scharnhorst.

I have recently bought and reviewed the Trumpeter 1/200 Scharnhorst on my YouTube channel and have noticed an issue with the bow/stem. The overall length at deck level is spot on according to my references, however, Trumpeter have moulded a "flat" at the top of the stem, whereas I believe it should be "pointed" forming an acute angle with the deck at its uppermost point?

I have a couple of followers who have commented that they feel the kit could be correct for a certain time frame but I cannot find any info or images to show that the Atlantic bow was itself modified after being fitted in 1939. There is also suggestion that the bulges around the prop shafts were modified at some point after 1939 also?

Can anyone please put me straight on this?

The video is here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCPPZSa_hBU

[Dan Banks]

Watched your video and you mention that the hull is imprinted with Gneisenau. This may be the cause of the bow issue, as she and Scharnhorst had different bow shapes. I think your fix for Scharnhorst�s bow will work as long as the cutting edge does not end up to blunt and wide. After reshaping, the bow needs to be sanded to a sharp edge, so as not to be too blunt. Don�t know about the prop bulges, the could have been reshaped some after the torpedo hit on her by Acasta during the battle with Glorious

[MartinJQuinn]

Those sink marks in the hull are very disappointing. Also surprised there are no intake and discharge vents on the underside of the hull.

[Dan Banks]

I recall a similar discussion about the intake/outlets on the hull when Dragon came out with their 1/350 kit, and at that time there were no photos or plans showing their shape and locations. So Dragon decided to leave them off. The new 1/200 might be a carry forward from that. Assuming they were the same as Bismarck is logical, but may be wrong. So it doesn�t bother me that they were left off. The new Anatomy of a Ship book shows them, but again, where is the documentation?