Calling all IJN Carrier fans (class comparisons)

[Bayuro]

I also checked out Frank381's work too and it seems he added a thick pla-plate on the sides and it doesn't look like catwalk to me.

[Dan K]

Those are catwalks as well. There are some individual sponsons and air intakes, but it's mostly just catwalks.

[Enioch]

Hello people, looking for some info on little Ryujo. Trying to make a 1:1800 minibuild of her in her 1942 refit, and I have seen both wooden and metal forward sections on her flight deck.

I saw the posts by ch hoeltge and the responses, which seem to be inconclusive, but I was wondering if anybody had any new info since 2017 (or if people back then simply missed something).

I wonder where the idea for a metal fore-flight-deck even came from, does anybody have a source?

Many thanks,
-E

[Dan K]

I can be a bit more specific now. In her original configuration, the one that shows her forward end of the flight deck squared off, the deck was wood planked.

When she was rebuilt as a result of the 4th Fleet incident, the forward end of her flight deck was reshaped with a curved edge, strengthened, and left unplanked - painted metal.

[Enioch]

Fascinating, many thanks! I am really interested in the curved edge phase, 1936 onward. Do you have any pics / sources for that that you can share?

Also, IIRC, her flight deck was refitted again in late 1939 / early 1940. Do you know if that changed anything re: metal / planked sections?

[Dan K]

There are very few overhead photos that I know of, particular for after her initial refit. Her sinking photo is too far away to make out any significant details. There is this photo from 1938, and I have one other source to check tonight, but I doubt it will have something else.

[TZoli]

These might help?
https://marekj655.blogspot.com/p/aircraft-carriers.html

Diamond Sha - Japanese Naval Warship Photo Album - Aircraft Carriers And Seaplane Carriers:
https://easyupload.io/9uzr0b

Japanees Naval Vessels Maru Special books:
https://easyupload.io/uznodp

[Enioch]

There are very few overhead photos that I know of, particular for after her initial refit. Her sinking photo is too far away to make out any significant details. There is this photo from 1938, and I have one other source to check tonight, but I doubt it will have something else.

Thanks! I have that one, but I honestly can only divine the metal foredeck. I don't really see a hard line separating planks and steel; if we're going only by the different brightness of the deck, that could be explained by the specular angles of the sunlight reflecting off the deck. I think.

These might help?

Oh, hey, it's TZoli. Thanks for replying!

https://marekj655.blogspot.com/p/aircraft-carriers.html

Sadly, no relevant deck pics, except one aft shot, where, again, I don't feel a steel foredeck is clearly visible.

Diamond Sha - Japanese Naval Warship Photo Album - Aircraft Carriers And Seaplane Carriers:
https://easyupload.io/9uzr0b

I own the book, that's where I found the pic that Dan posted.

Japanees Naval Vessels Maru Special books:
https://easyupload.io/uznodp

Now these I did not own, and they look like amazing sources, but a quick flip through the pages does not show any other top-down pics late in her life, sadly.

[Dan K]

I agree that it's hard to differentiate between surfaces from the photo that I've posted. My other source did not offer anything new.

A couple of pages back in this thread, I posted a color illustration of her last deck from the Gakken Perfect volume on IJN CVs. I think this is probably the most likely representation of her flight deck.

[TZoli]

Sorry I could not help, but found this:
http://navgunschl.sblo.jp/s/article/81573921.html

[Dan K]

Yes, but the article is inconclusive.

[Enioch]

Sorry I could not help, but found this:
http://navgunschl.sblo.jp/s/article/81573921.html

This is an extremely interesting picture. If this is what it says on the tin (Ryujo, 1942), then we really need to re-examine both the deck planking and its markings. The boards there would indicate a radical re-orientation of the planking, from the "horizontal", cross-deck pattern used when the ship was launched to a "vertical" length-of-the-deck pattern in 1942. Not to mention that the white strip along the sides of the deck was changed from a solid line seen in the pic originally posted by Dan to a dashed line in the photo in Tzoli's article.

AFAIK, there is no known IJN carrier where the side strips are dashed instead of solid.

[Dan K]

white strip along the sides of the deck was changed from a solid line seen in the pic originally posted by Dan to a dashed line in the photo in Tzoli's article.

That doesn't appear to be so. I found another version of this photo in another Fukui volume. Note how the outer striping is dashed even in 1938. Also note how the metal portion of the forward flight deck appear to wrap around a planked center, judging from the differences in shades of the flight deck. This makes me wonder if some more flight deck planking forward was removed at a later date.

FWIW.

[Bayuro]

Hello people, looking for some info on little Ryujo. Trying to make a 1:1800 minibuild of her in her 1942 refit, and I have seen both wooden and metal forward sections on her flight deck.

I saw the posts by ch hoeltge and the responses, which seem to be inconclusive, but I was wondering if anybody had any new info since 2017 (or if people back then simply missed something).

I wonder where the idea for a metal fore-flight-deck even came from, does anybody have a source?

Many thanks,
-E

You can check out this youtube channel https://m.youtube.com/@teikoku_R. She got lots of 3D models of almost every IJN warships including Ryujo.

[Mykman]

Hi All

I was looking through the Border model 1:35 Akagi island manual and I was wondering was there anything like this H18 part on the real one ? Its on the first level on the island at the back. Even on any IJN carrier ? For me it looks like an artist imagination , could not found any indication so far on archive photos or models on any scale that this piece ever existed. Any ideas ?

[Dan K]

Fantabulous question, and I have no idea. The available documentation and photography is not revealing on this.

HOWEVER........................

A Japanese propaganda war film was produced in 1942 with assistance from the Navy Ministry called "The War at Sea from Hawaii to Malaya". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_a ... _to_Malaya

In it appears what seems to be a near full size copy of Akagi (sort of like what was done with Tora, Tora, Tora,), along with real aircraft (though we see B5N1 models, not B5N2s).

Have a look at the 2:30 mark and again at the 2:51+ mark. That panel appears. Chances are that it was replicated. But, that's just a supposition on my part.

Movie clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96hltfS9ElY

[Mykman]

Wow , thanks Dan ! I was not aware of this video , but indeed it looks like this was the inspiration for border model. It does not look like identical but its something.
On the the wreck sadly this part is completly gone , so I guess we will never know this for sure.

[ussvf17]

It is not Akagi, but you are see Kaga had similar arrangement from this photo. It doesn't prove one way or the other for Akagi, but it was at least done on another CV.

[Dan K]

That's a great cropping. I agree that given such an arrangement on Kaga adds circumstantial credence to Akagi having a similar setup.

[horner]

H18 is correct ?

In my opinion, I think part H18 is correct. Here I am attaching some information in case it is necessary. I hope this helps.