1/144 Jorge Juan (ex USS McGowan)

[Rick E Davis]

Willie,

Something doesn't quite look right about your tripod installation. The main tripod leg of the foremast was anchored to the main deck. In the case of ex-USS McGOWAN, the leg passed through the Commanders Cabin before going on to the main deck at the cross walkway between the forward deckhouse and the midships deckhouse. In your model the tripod forward leg should show to be attached to the Commanders Cabin "roof" aka deck over the cabin. You have the option of just anchoring to the top of the Commanders Cabin or to pass the forward leg all the way through the cabin to the main deck.

Attached are drawings of a typical FLETCHER (in this case DD-795) inboard profile showing the foremast forward tripod leg (as an aside; notice that there was a angled brace from the fire room bulkhead to the base of the foremast leg and an outboard drawing of USS McGOWAN herself showing the relationship of the tripod to the Commanders Cabin. Also, I added a pair of views of USS AMMEN that shows nicely the layout of the Commanders Cabin and the interface with the foremast tripod. Also, it clearly shows (better than the other views) that the cross walkway was still there.

The Revell 1/350 scale FLETCHER kit really screwed this up, putting the mast in the wrong place.

[Willie]

Hi there Mr. Davis and all.

Mr. Davis, thanks a lot for your always kind observations and the excellent pics that you have enclosed.

Actually, things in my model are exactly as you have stated they should be. The mast is actually anchored to the main deck; the white plate you see on deck01 will be covered by the Conn. cabin, and will be therefore completely invisible. It was necessary to add it only to correct the rake of the mast to exactly 5� without any kind of movement when adding the two legs of the tripod. In this way, the mast will be definitely fixed in 5� and for the same price will have three anchoring points instead of only two, main deck, deck01 and ceiling of the cabin when everything else is ready and set in place.

This can be seen in the last picture that I uploaded yesterday.

Nice going from accross the pool, and very best regards,

Willie.

[Rick E Davis]

Willie,

Good. I wasn't sure from the last image of just how the tripod foremast was mounted at that aspect angle of the camera.

Looking good.

Rick

[Fliger747]

Willie:

Nice work, haven't had to do a tripod mast since Missouri some many years ago! I presumed that the mast in your photo was merely set in the closest available spot for tryouts. Sometimes in ship modeling we have to depart a little from prototype construction for ease of assembly. In Whitehurst my mast (pole) penetrates the O2 and O3 decks externally and would in prototype not terminate on the O1 deck. To accomplish this more easily my mast is in three sections but aligned such that a piano wire penetrates the whole thing from top to bottom. In your case the Commanders cabin complicates the process a little but I presume you will insert a stub in the cross passageway?

Overall the ship begins to look quite real as the superstructure parts are set in place. I like to do this just for pleasure, set many of the completed items on deck just to get the feel of the ship.

Best regards on your fine work! Tom

[Willie]

Howdy Mr. Davis, Tom and all modelers.

Thanks once more for your always very kind remarks and useful advice.

Tom, of course the big hole will be covered, but I will have to finish all the wiring up the mast first.

In the meanwhile, the next step was further detailing in the commander cabin.

The vent on the stb. side is clearly there in Jorge Juan, but the details are very blurr in every picture that I have. Anyhow I found this one, which is exceptionally clear:

Making it was easy, using some scraps of rod in three calibers. I think that more or less I got it:

The next thing was the deck. Jorge Juan had what seems to be two lockers virtually off board on both sides, with one more in the middle of the deck. The pics are again very blurr, but they are there.

The same section onboard sister Alcal� Galiano shows these interesting details:

The two lockers hanging off board are there, along with the one in the middle, as well as another one on the very back of the cabin.

The same section onboard DD544 USS Boyd shows how the forth locker �or whatever it was� was attached to the bulkhead:

Making the lockers was easy, even though they are a guesswork in most of the details.

And over to the next post.

Brgds,

Willie.[/size]

[Willie]

Now, with everything set in place, the effect is this:

And with a dry fit, this is how things are at the moment:

I hope yopu like it, and very best regards from this side of the stormy seas,

Willie.
[/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,

Very nice work - as usual! I think you've nailed the lockers and exhaust vent pipe very well! I'm not sure what those lockers were used for - it's possible that they may have been pyro lockers or possibly boat deck tool lockers or something entirely different. Just a guess.

Obviously where our two models differ as STOD did not have the commander's cabin added. Your tripod mast placement looks real good, as well!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Willie:

Yet another small model (Commanders cabin) to be place in the over diorama that will be the ship. A busy, detailed and convincing whole!

Best regards: Tom

[Rick E Davis]

Willie,

Great work. This is the first FLETCHER model I have seen with the Commander's Cabin. Well Done.

Rick

[bwross11]

Wow Willie!

This project is turning into a real gem, I congratulate you on your progress thus far.

Exceptional

[marijn van gils]

That is coming together very nicely!

[Willie]

Hi there all friend modelers,

Thanks very much before anything else for your very generous remarks.

Yet another small model (Commanders cabin) to be place in the over diorama that will be the ship.

Tom, I had never thought of this thing as a diorama, but as every element in this ship seems to be a model by itself, I would say you are but very right.

The following thing happened almost by accident. I had a couple of spare hours yesterday, and as I was not in the mood of cutting plastic and had no much time anyway I thought I could simply make the calculations and the first plan for the open bridge gallery, something that adds lots of life to this model, as I have always had the opinion that the bridge windows are almost the eyes and hence the expression (to call it so) of a ship.

After the initial calculations the first thing was to make a plan, and then, almost unwillingly, I started adding strips and reinforcements until the thing was done -- a surprisingly quick job.

Then I simply cut the three sections, found the correct angles and glued the sections in their correct places.

Then I added the cover, in three sections. A bit tricky, but not difficult.

And in a dry fit, this is the final product at the moment:

The adjustment is apparently not 100% perfect, but this is only a dry fit, with the elements set loose; once glued in position, and after some possible retouches with sandpaper, the fitting will be OK, and the open seams will disappear.

I hope you like it, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

[Fliger747]

Willie:

The bridge window frames and canopy well capture the feel of the Post War Fletchers. It is quite satisfying to dry fit and stack various items together to achieve a sense of progress towards the assembly of the components, visualize more fully what the model will look like, even imagining her at sea.

Warmest regards from far away Alaska! Tom

[Willie]

Hi there Tom and all,

The bridge window frames and canopy well capture the feel of the Post War Fletchers.

Not quite, sadly. It fits perfectly many of the US Navy Fletchers bridges...,

...but not 100% McGowan/Jorge Juan, whose middle window was same in height, but a bit narrower in width.

I have discovered that I made a small 2mm. mistake with the front bulkhead on the bridge gallery while designing the structures (I glued the bulkhead outside the line, instead of inside), and now I had to achieve a compromise between the width and the height of all windows. The end product is 1mm. too long on both sides, but as the other solution would be to rebuild the bridge completely, and as the expression of the windows is almost the same, I think I can live with this.
[/size]

Warmest regards from far away Alaska!

After the low temperatures they are enjoying in the Middle West at the moment, I cannot imagine how hot the situation has to be in Alaska.

Nice going from the other side of the ocean,

Willie.

[Rick E Davis]

A little background on the open bridge "canopy" (not sure what they called it) used on FLETCHER's post WWII. Actually, during WWII a very few FLETCHER's appeared with likely "crew-made" plexiglass wind shields on the open bridge face. From the start, the open bridge FLETCHER's had a big problem, there were crew reports of vortex problems making manning the bridge unbearable in bad/windy conditions. These shields would have been one of many solutions tried.

Post WWII, as the FLETCHER's recommissioned during the Korean War mobilization, they had open bridges as during WWII. Sometime afterwards, mid-late 1950's, windscreens with a canvas canopy over a pipe frame were installed. Then a more "permanent" canopy appeared in the early 1960's. I tried to spot a ShipAlt for this mod, but didn't locate a separate one listed in Departure Reports. I suspect that the canopies appeared as they installed duplicate equipment from the pilot house on the navigation bridge front. The canopy could have been part of that ShipAlt.

A view from under the canopy when canvas was being used. I don't have a similar view with the solid canopy. But, both USS THE SULLIVANS and USS CASSIN YOUNG museum ships have the solid canopy. (USS KIDD did, but it was removed) I thought I took photos of the bridge area on CASSIN YOUNG, but they would have been old school film images and I would have to search for them and scan.

The second image shows USS THE SULLIVANS in 1962 with the solid canopy.

[BB62vet]

To add a bit to Rick's above reply - from what I've noted in going over many of the photos of the various FLETCHER's that were modified in the 50s/60s, there didn't appear to be a standard design for these windscreens. For example, STODDARD had an early (1955) windscreen that sloped inward slightly with a canvas or Herculite canopy which was replaced in the 1960s with the final outward sloping windscreen and metal canopy. I've noticed similar patterns with many of the other modified class ships. Once again, this could have been simply shipyard designed mods rather than a class alteration.

Willie - I think your windscreen looks fine as is. I went thru a couple design changes before settling on the one that I'm using for STODDARD. Quite similar actually to JORGE JUAN.

Hank

[Willie]

Hi there Mr. Davis and Hank,

Mr. Davis, thanks very much for the superb 1st. pic, the bulkhead of USS Halsey Powell. After seeing it, I can see how stripped bare the bridge of The Sullivans was when I visited her in Buffalo. Now it will very simple to complete my own bridge with all these new elements.

Hank, I have come to the conclussion that there were no two Fletchers that were at least similar, even in general lines. When building the first steps of my mast, I realized that, unlike all the rest of the Fletchers that I know, The Sullivans had her mast anchored aft of the bridge structure, rather than fore of the fore stack structure. The full corridor width, two full meters appart from the common position.

While searching for some other details of the canopy (Mr. Davis, thanks for the new technical word) I came across this picture, showing details I had never seen before in other pictures. Adding the new details was as much as nothing, but it is frustrating to imagine how many more details I may have passed by without noticing it. The more I research, the more things I see. The problem for me is when to stop. I think this would be the neverending story. This is the reason why I leave painting to the very last moment, just in case something else turns up.

Nice going and very best wishes from across the North Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

[Fliger747]

Many thanks to Rick E Davis for posting the many clear and detailed photos which are invaluable for the detail they contain. Indeed no two escorts (this happened to the DE's as well) seem to remain a standard configuration even if built next to each other at the same shipyard at the same time. Examples such as Stoddard DD 566 and Watts DD567 and England DE 635 and Whitehurst DE 634 diverged considerably. As to the bridge awnings the WWII aircraft threat had mostly evaporated and the need for the conning officer to have an unobstructed overhead view lessened. Alaska didn't get an awning on her 08 level conning station, but during wartime she did receive the (I presume) plexiglass partial windscreen.

Willie: As to halting point for detail? Maybe there really isn't one, vintage warships tend to be very busy and this forest of fine texture and detail add a lot of the flavor of the real ships. I ran around Missouri on several occasions with my 50 MP DSLR and took hundreds of detail photos. The main issue was I didn't have access to all areas so application of detail is not as consistent as I would like. As long as you don't have obvious bare spots and the detail level looks pretty constant, I think you are only adding to your model.

Nice work on the Commanders Cabin! Cheers: Tom

[Tracy White]

The problem for me is when to stop. I think this would be the neverending story.

A famous author has a saying about writing that I think applies to building models as well:

�Research is endlessly seductive, writing is hard work. One has to sit down on that chair and think and transform thought into readable, conservative, interesting sentences that make sense and make the reader turn the page.�

- Barbara Tuchman

A builder wanting to make a better model needs to look at research and references and sit down at the bench an think and transform materials into understandable facsimiles that capture the essence of what they are trying to represent.

[Willie]

Hi there Tom, Tracy and all,

Thanks for your remarks.

As long as you don't have obvious bare spots and the detail level looks pretty constant, I think you are only adding to your model.

Absolutely right, actually my own opinion. The collection of pictures Hank and Mr. davis have provided me with allow consistency (the key word) in almost every corner. As I am always revising pictures for other elements, some obscure points show up from time to time, and it is always a happiness to add details.

A builder wanting to make a better model needs to look at research and references and sit down at the bench an think and transform materials into understandable facsimiles that capture the essence of what they are trying to represent.

Absolutely right as well. Otherwise where is the fun of modelling, specially a ship that does npot exist anymore. Only that it is frustrating at time to have worked for hours in some obscure element only to suddenly find a picture that shows that you guess work was 75% correct, only 50%, a mere 25% or not right at all, and back to the start point. But patience is something that we modelers have in great store.

Considering that I have nothing at all of the bridge of Jorge Juan, that there were no two identical Fletchers, and using Mr. Davis's previous picture as a wide reference, I have more or less completed the bridge, some real elements of Halsey Powell, some of The Sullivans and some more a guess work, as usual.

Mr. Davis's picture shows really crowded bulkheads. I have left some gaps, because otherwise I would not be able to paint the thing correctly or to do a realistc dry brush.

Maybe I add some more elements, but I don think it is necessary. When the canopy is added most of these elements will be difficult to see, so what is the point.

So I hope you like it, and very best regards once more from across the pool,

Willie.[/size]