Calling all USS Hornet CV-8 fans

[Michael Vorrasi]

Fellow aviators out there, take note of how much right trim tab he has cranked in and how much additional right rudder he is stomping on. Must have been serious propeller torque on that little short coupled airframe!

[Michael Vorrasi]

While I'm on a tear, Hornet at Midway:













Is that Atlanta off her port quarter?

[Cadman]

NICE! Good shots of the 1.1 in action.

[Bondoman]

For sure, and in particular very nice color info and details on the Marines uniforms.

[MartinJQuinn]

NICE! Good shots of the 1.1 in action.

Quite nice. Did the Japanese get close enough to TF 16 for them to use their AA weapons?

[Dick J]

Fellow aviators out there, take note of how much right trim tab he has cranked in and how much additional right rudder he is stomping on. Must have been serious propeller torque on that little short coupled airframe!

Not uncommon in a big-radial-engine aircraft. We put in nearly full right rudder at the start of the takeoff when I was flying the T-28's. As the airspeed increased, the rudder was eased off.

[Michael Vorrasi]

NICE! Good shots of the 1.1 in action.

Quite nice. Did the Japanese get close enough to TF 16 for them to use their AA weapons?

Martin, I've wondered about that myself. These are from the John Ford combat footage shot at Midway, and the crews are in full combat gear with helmets. Additionally, all the guns are firing, the 5 inch, the 20mm's and the 1.1" quads. That tends to lean toward actual combat and not a training exercise. Could be that some enemy aircraft passed close enough to get things jumping on their return flights from hitting Yorktown. No ordinance left, so no attack on TF-16. Or...it was just staged for Ford's film crew, but that is unlikely given the grave situation at the time.

[Jerry Phillips]

TF-16 did not fire it's guns in anger during Midway Battle. It is a drill.....look in the background. Some guys are sitting casually on flight deck edge. I believe that Hornet's first actual, no drill, AA action was at Santa Cruz, Oct 1942.

[Michael Vorrasi]

Quite nice. Did the Japanese get close enough to TF 16 for them to use their AA weapons?

Martin, I've wondered about that myself. These are from the John Ford combat footage shot at Midway, and the crews are in full combat gear with helmets. Additionally, all the guns are firing, the 5 inch, the 20mm's and the 1.1" quads. That tends to lean toward actual combat and not a training exercise. Could be that some enemy aircraft passed close enough to get things jumping on their return flights from hitting Yorktown. No ordinance left, so no attack on TF-16. Or...it was just staged for Ford's film crew, but that is unlikely given the grave situation at the time.

Martin, I just re-read Hornet's deck log for the Battle of Midway. I makes mention of Enterprise coming under attack from torpedo planes at 1644 on 4 June, two minutes after Yorktown reported being under attack at 1642. The deck log made note earlier that Hornet was steaming in sight of Enterprise. Also, the following passage may possibly indicate that she opened up with her AA. "1410 YORKTOWN reported that she was being attacked by aircraft. The sky in her direction was filled with anti-aircraft bursts" It isn't clear if Hornet was filling the sky, but she was apparently close enough to see it, so maybe some enemy planes did pass within her range.

[Michael Vorrasi]

TF-16 did not fire it's guns in anger during Midway Battle. It is a drill.....look in the background. Some guys are sitting casually on flight deck edge. I believe that Hornet's first actual, no drill, AA action was at Santa Cruz, Oct 1942.

Jerry, while the record shows TF-16 was not directly attacked, the Hornet deck log makes clear that there is some ambiguity. Planes attacking Yorktown may have passed within "itchy-trigger finger" range of Hornet. They could see the sky above Yorktown. Also, there is only one guy sitting on the deck edge, and his khaki pants indicates an officer, possibly directing things at the 20mm battery. Another guy is prone on the flight deck up in front of the 5 inch guns. He may be laying down to protect himself from the 5 inch muzzle blast. i don't think he is taking in the sun!

[Michael Vorrasi]

Some color shots of Hornet's LSO at work. This clip is a bit yellowed, so don't trust the colors 100%. A few points to note. Many years back, the great guys at Floating Drydock put out a plan (overhead and starboard side views, by Tom Walkowiak. The same plan appears in the Hornet Battle Damage book they put out. I pointed out to Larry and Tom years ago that the plan (their modification of the original as-built plan, altered to show the 20mm locations) had some errors. They had left off the stern ramp corner cutout single 20mm's which are clearly visible in all the Tokyo raid shots. They also deleted the port side 20mm tub just aft of the LSO platform, but included its starboard side counterpart. Trumpy actually got these right, thanks to my help. But i have seen several models deleting them deliberately, no doubt in deference to the FD plans. Well, take a look at the Oerlikon sights in the foreground of all these shots, all ye who still doubt! The topic of that canvas wind screen just came up in the CV-2 thread. The canvas screen was instantly fold-able to lie flat in case of a low pass, etc. Nearly every photo of Hornet's after deck had the canvas screen up, hence, when viewed from the island, the photos did not show the 20mm gun behind it, while the starboard side gun is clearly visible, thus the reason that Tom's plan had it missing. As we see, it was there all along.

[MartinJQuinn]

While my King Edward VII pre-dreanought waits to be painted, I started doing some more work on the Trumpeter Hornet. I've most of the catwalks on, but I have a question about the two catwalks at the bow - the Gold Medal photo-etch replacements dangle out into the air between the bow and the forward 5 inch gun emplacement. What holds these up on the real ship? I've dry-fitted the port side catwalk but don't want to fit it until I figure out the answer.

TIA...

[Bondoman]

Here's a picture from Navsource of CV-5, best I could find.

The ends of the big deck frames have those interesting looking triangular plates with lightening holes. It looks like the walk goes under them. Theres also more of them (maybe five of six) than on the model.
I wish I knew more as eventually I'll be faced with it too. Does the model walk fit against the hull? It almost seems to me, and it would take a picture of Hornet to show, that the big beam ends on the model, if that's what they are, are too deep and are holding the walk away from the hull. I'd like to see, too.

[MartinJQuinn]

After combing through Wipers Yorktown class book and the Warship Data book on Hornet's loss, it looks like Yorky and Enterprise had posts by holding up the catwalks where they terminate at the forward end of the 5 inch gun galleries. For Hornet, it appears (to me) from photos that the catwalks ended right on top of the splinter shielding. However, in the Trumpeter kit, they don't reach the height of the splinter shields, they are higher. I've decided I'll put some plastic strips under the catwalks to give the appearance that they are attached to the hull.

[Michael Vorrasi]

After combing through Wipers Yorktown class book and the Warship Data book on Hornet's loss, it looks like Yorky and Enterprise had posts by holding up the catwalks where they terminate at the forward end of the 5 inch gun galleries. For Hornet, it appears (to me) from photos that the catwalks ended right on top of the splinter shielding. However, in the Trumpeter kit, they don't reach the height of the splinter shields, they are higher. I've decided I'll put some plastic strips under the catwalks to give the appearance that they are attached to the hull.

Martin, the catwalk structure, aside from the wider squared off corners at the front ends, was very similar to Yorktown and Enterprise. There are several support beams along the way that connect to the main flight deck girders, which are missing on your model. You'll need to build these out to the edge of the flight deck and then do some scratching for the catwalk support beams. This shot should help. Note the shadows and sunlight that reveals it is not connected to the hangar deck bulkhead.

[Timmy C]

RichardP is doing a pretty dang good job of fixing the hull here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=78989

[robertmelvin]

While my King Edward VII pre-dreanought waits to be painted, I started doing some more work on the Trumpeter Hornet. I've most of the catwalks on, but I have a question about the two catwalks at the bow - the Gold Medal photo-etch replacements dangle out into the air between the bow and the forward 5 inch gun emplacement. What holds these up on the real ship? I've dry-fitted the port side catwalk but don't want to fit it until I figure out the answer.

TIA...

Martin, where did you come up with that foam form your Hornet is resting on? That looks to me like just the trick for steadying a larger 1/350 scale ship while you work on her. The vise I use for DDs and other smaller ships isn't practical for something like Hornet or North Carolina. Did you cut that out of stock foam yourself or find it pre-formed?

Bob

[MartinJQuinn]

Pre-formed, from Micro Mark. It's made for railroad stock!

[John W.]

Can you compare the 2 when you are done so we can see whats wrong on the trumpy kit?

Here's a quick look of pictures posted earlier in this same thread about page 11 or so. Believe it or not, the angle of these photos makes the Trump hull look much closer (!!!) than it is.

PA300097.JPG (17.66 KiB) Viewed 3781 times

Unfortunately, as many have said many times, the hull is only the beginning, not the extent, of the problems. Some are blessed with the ability not to sweat the details as much as I and some others (and you know who you are . . .). More power to those who press on and do a good model of a great ship. I can tell you that being a stickler for detail on this particular ship model has probably made the work at least fifteen times as hard, maybe more, than just going with the kit and the directions. Still, though I must put it down sometimes for months on end, I continue to pick it up and get back on it when I'm ready. Wait until you start doing the flight deck supports with those freaking steel beams with the stiffeners . . .

[robertmelvin]

Pre-formed, from Micro Mark. It's made for railroad stock!

Martin, thanks for the info. Looks very handy indeed. Appears I need to visit Mirco-Mark. Just got their new cataloge and I saw a couple of other handly looking items as well.

Bob