The Ship Model Forum

Holy f**k, that is amazing. Really remarkable work.

speechless.

Marijn, this is a real piece of modeling art.
Wayne's World came to mind: "we are not worthy, we are noth worthy".

I just couldn't imagine how you will tackle those lines but they (and the whole ship for that matter) turned out absolutely wonderful.
This is new level of stunningly realistic weathered paint finish, something I have never seen before on a ship model!

EJ wrote
>>>>..... And 25 hours on the lines? <<<<

I think he wants to say..-- is that all...?!!!

very very very good Marjiin

remarkable and very believable
Bravo!
JB

I'm out of words already!





Jose

Many thanks everyone!

pascalemod wrote:Will you mount it on water? Kinda feel like it deserves some perfect water base...

Yes!!! Unfortunately most of this thread fell victim to Photobuckets' decision to stop third-party hosting, otherwise you could see in the earlier pages that the ship is the centerpiece of a diorama.
Construction of all elements is finished, and I'm already looking forward to painting the other parts of the diorama when Amagi is finished.
This is the unpainted layout:

EJFoeth wrote:Is the dust applied per brush and left there? Does it need fixation?

I guess you mean the pigment powders I used on the stacks?
I applied it dry with a fine brush, without fixation. This means I shouldn't touch it anymore or get it wet, but I don't plan on doing that anyway. For soft borders like this, the only way to fix it would be to very gently mist fixating fluid (thinner) over it with an airbrush.
I did first apply the soot stains with Humbrol enamels though. The pigments are only added over the top of those to get that really extra-mat dusty feel. The Humbrols under it assure me that the effect will not fade over time should the pigments partly deteriorate.
I usually avoid pigment powders, so I don't have too much experience with them.

EJFoeth wrote:And 25 hours on the lines?

JIM BAUMANN wrote:I think he wants to say..-- is that all...?!!!

I'm very sure that's what Evert-Jan wants to say!
Well, everything is relative of course...
Some people finish an entire 1/700 model in that amount of time...
And unless it is a complicated one, I can paint a 54mm figure in 25 hours to competition standard.
Together with an extra 5 hours or so for the dirt and flaked paint below the dark lines, for me that amounts to a full month of hobby time.
But I guess for scratchbuilding correct planking patterns on a 1/350 scale battlecruiser, 25 hours is nothing... Ship modelling is so damned time-inefficient...

Koppalakki wrote:Not many realize how long such small things take if you really want to pull them off!

Exactly! Compared to figure- and AFV-modelling, ship modelling generaly has a relatively strong bias towards construction. Many modellers spend about 90% of their time on construction and 10% on painting. With me (and I guess you too!) it is at least 50-50%.
Getting the most out of a paintjob does indeed take a lot of planning, method, technique, and therefore time, but the results are really worth it. Besides, I don't need to tell you it is really fun to do!

Many thanks again for the nice words everyone!

Marijn

marijn van gils wrote:But I guess for scratchbuilding correct planking patterns on a 1/350 scale battlecruiser, 25 hours is nothing... Ship modelling is so damned time-inefficient...

I heard that

Hope to get that finished this Christmas and try painting wood, scary I'll get back to you on tips when that fails miserably... but one of the things I really like about showing your progress is a) the progress (because it is truly wonderful) and b) the time estimate. Knowing that a certain technique takes hours is important to manage expectations....

Extremely impressive weathering effects, beautifully executed!

Thanks sgtryan!

EJFoeth wrote:I heard that

Hope to get that finished this Christmas and try painting wood, scary I'll get back to you on tips when that fails miserably... but one of the things I really like about showing your progress is a) the progress (because it is truly wonderful) and b) the time estimate. Knowing that a certain technique takes hours is important to manage expectations....

That is very true indeed!
In the end it comes down to the very simple rule: 'you can only get out of a model what you put into it!'
But on the internet, all we see is photo's on which the models suddenly look better than before, while all the long modelling hours necessary for that are not always readily apparent to everybody...

Managing expectations is indeed very important when embarking on a project. How much time am I willing/able to spend on a project? How ambitious can I make my project, both in terms of size and level of detail? And how can I balance these?
I'm guessing that most 'shelf-queens' are the result of failing to find the right balance...

I'm already looking forward to seeing some color on those planks!
I hope you know you don't have to fail at least one attempt before you can ask questions?

Cheers!

Marijn

marijn van gils wrote:And how can I balance these?

What is this balance you keep to referring to and where can I find it?

marijn van gils wrote:I hope you know you don't have to fail at least one attempt before you can ask questions?

Probably not I've [s]stolen[/s] been inspired by your painting technique of lines and shadows and played with those a bit (oh my, already 2 years ago). I also have a bit of Tamiya primer and thinner standing by to try out so that should work as well. My plan is a coat of H72, perhaps a small overspray with darkened H72 around vertical surfaces (rather than preshading). I noticed from my earlier airbrushing attempts the result is too grainy, so perhaps not enough thinner/adding too much? After that has dried I'll take my cute & tiny brush and painstakingly paint each plank a different color; I was actually planning to do a fwd and backward pass; adding a streak to the plank end and slowly blend it it towards the end, from both one end and back in different tones. Randomly. Three or four or five passes in mixes of H72 and H110 (Natural wood) and van Dyk brown (perhaps) and white (certainly) Repeat until I go insane, drink wine, continue when sober. When done, add a sealing layer, then van Dyk brown washes (not black!) to add shadows to the scratched deck lines. Then add a white salt wash (very very light gray, not white) and whatever this "damage" to the colour is in the HMS QE on the deck to the right of B-turret
Not sure what to do with that one or general deck stains... the effect should be a bit close to this experiment:
The plank ends are not there yet, the wash needs a few more passes (not fully covering now). The turret is in Marijn style (*it's really that easy to copy guys!* ) but without the salt wash and not enough weathering yet (need to be careful, Hood was repainted frequently). I'm happy with the highlighting but what you show with Amagi with a few more vertical streaks that add more depth to the overall impression.

That is my grand strategy so feel free to comment (Especially for a different colour selection). I wanted to have this done earlier but I have many excuses why had the project shelved for a while and this was not due to balance errors That is, adding plank detail took a lot of time but that's fine. I also took some time to experiment with individual etched stanchions after seeing Werner's beautiful work with his current model. The latest test was a bit of a failure but I feel confident enough to continue with it. That means drilling in the deck after painting... should be fine. But I actually rebuilt my hobby room into a workplace for my wife and am currently *ahum* between hobby spaces.

Well, you didn't abandon the project yet, so you're still on the right side of the scale!


Those planks look great! I would say the general approach is sound!
An extra wash would also lower the contrast between the planks a bit, which would be good according to my personal taste.

Some non-brown colours that can work well for varying wood-tones are flesh and warm greys. I like also radome tan (HU148) for lightening things.

Excellent that you are looking to mix things up a bit with some local worn, wet, or dusty zones and spots, instead of having the same wood-effect all over the ship. This goes a long way in making a model visually more interesting!
I used flesh (HU61) and radome tan for the 'dust' on the flight deck of my Lexington. That one has of course a blue-grey basecolour, so here a more greyish tone like the very light grey you suggest might be better for contrast with the warm wood tones.
B&W photo's are good in showing that the decks were often not uniform in appearance, but it is often hard to see what exactly is going on. It would be a good idea to gather some colour photos of (other) ships in similar conditions (can be more recent), study the effects and the colours, and get inspiration from that.

The turrets are looking great, as I've been able to see in the flesh! It is indeed not very hard, it just takes a bit of extra time...
Of course you cannot dirty up a ship like Hood like a wreck like Amagi, but it is possible to break up the colours a bit more. Without making the ship look 'dirty' and worn, this will make it look more in scale and visually interesting.
You can do this by applying some subtle filters with blue, red brown, green, beige, flesh, etc. Place them in a random way, and keep them so subtle that they only result in a barely visible shift in tone of the base grey. The effect shouldn't jump out at you, but it should just break the monotomy of the bluish grey colour.
It is possible to do this after painting the shadows; just be careful not to let too much paint collect and dry in the shadow areas; and if necessary repaint a couple of shadows afterwards.
After this, you can add some dark and light streaks for light 'dirt' effects.

Cheers,

Marijn

By the way, lack of hooby space is only an excuse if you let it be one!

We don't really need much space to keep going...
This is my holiday workspace when a family visit is continuing long enough for me to get permission to withdraw.

The rest of the time I was a bit more comfortable on the dining table on the terras, but still cleaning up for each meal...

Cheers!

Marijn

Just messing with you!

I know it's not always easy to make time available for the hobby, or space even if that is in our heads...

Cheers,

Marijn

No please, keep on messing, it actually helps getting my inspiration going I now do a lot of work on the kitchen table and that is just as fine as on the hobby table.... the wife and I just switched work places, but as she started her own business she got priority. I spent some time lowering the hobby table, sanding it and adding a new coat of oil.... For painting I have to find a solution but that's just a minor problem. Usually after a long day of work I'm too tired to get anything done so I rely on the weekends. Often filled with all kinds of nonsense... plus... I am currently building a new amplifier that also took a lot of time.... but that should be done this weekend...!

Filtering should also be fun; when the deck is done and the hull repaired from the minor damage accumulated with the deck scratching (had to replace a few sections of the deck) I want to add minor accents of all the individual armor plates. Very subtle, barely visible (not on full scale but soit). The white wash filtering is something I at first did not think of, but noticed it on your build and looks like a good idea... especially as the real ship has it as well.... but in the build order the deck has first priority.

I am out of words for this, Marijn! You are an incredibly talented modeller who always has the perfect solutions and techniques to every kind of weatherings and colours! Now I'm seeing a new volume of modelling magazine coming up!

marijn van gils wrote:but still cleaning up for each meal...

That's exactly what we do every day!

Regards,
Aop & Aur

Many thanks Aop and Aur!


EJ, that sounds like a good plan!

Cheers,

Marijn

Approaching perfection.

Marijn the Magician strikes again!

marijn van gils wrote:

Koppalakki wrote:Not many realize how long such small things take if you really want to pull them off!

Exactly! Compared to figure- and AFV-modelling, ship modelling generaly has a relatively strong bias towards construction. Many modellers spend about 90% of their time on construction and 10% on painting. With me (and I guess you too!) it is at least 50-50%.
Getting the most out of a paintjob does indeed take a lot of planning, method, technique, and therefore time, but the results are really worth it. Besides, I don't need to tell you it is really fun to do!

Many thanks again for the nice words everyone!

Marijn

Perhaps it is due to my lack of skill in scratchbuilding or, at the very least, a greater willingness to accept a kits defects, but I tend to spend only 30-35% of my time shipbuilding on construction. The painting, detailing, weathering, and finishing just takes up so much time to get right. Especially if you employ a multilayered approach to pre and post shading.

I've even started to learn how to paint and draw in two dimensions to try and improve my skills. I may even try to paint an entire ship in just oils to see how that goes.

Thanks Dan and Strategos Augustos!

I was generalizing of course. There are plenty of ship builders spending a lot of time and attention to painting.
And everything is relative: you finish a 1/200 model in a couple of months time!

It also depends a lot on what style of model one wishes to make: with scale effect or not, a lived-in and weathered look, or rather a clean builders style model... They all pose different challenges, but the latter of course requires less variation and layers, and therefore less time, when painting.

Cheers,

Marijn

HI Marijn,
Having just come across this thread it of course goes without saying that this is once again a remarkable bit of modelling, it is so wonderful to see you turning your hand to ships and continuing to raise the standard each time.

Very interesting your comments about painting, I was having this discussion at SMC with Chris Meddings and a few others since, I think you are entirely right about the time spent on building being generally much higher for most ship modellers over painting. We certainly have a lot to learn from other genres and it is enlightening to see your skills being applied to small scales, I will be continuing to watch and learn.

Mike