What-If Montana-class BB-67

[EJM]

I just noticed today that this entire thread was moved from the "Calling all Battleship fans" sub-forum to the "What If" sub-forum. Could a Moderator please explain why this was done?

[Timmy C]

I didn't move it, but most probably because the Montana class was never built and thus is a "what-if" subject.

[lancer525]

I didn't move it, but most probably because the Montana class was never built and thus is a "what-if" subject.

If that is the case, then why is there a "Calling All Battleship Fans---> Montana Class" forum to begin with?

[Timmy C]

We didn't have a What-if section when this Montana thread was originally started. It was only recently that What-if threads became popular, resulting in the creation of this section.

[EJM]

I just submitted text and pics tonight of my Montana battleship for gallery submission. Been a long time coming. I probably should've done it a year ago when I had the model done, but I didn't. I'd rather not go into the reasons why. Anyway, now everyone will have another Montana to look at sometime in January or early Feb., or whenever Cadman or Sean get caught up with submissions. I might send in a few more additional pics of the ship rigged in the future, but I'm not sure. I have to fix a few lines first. Anyway, enjoy the wait.

[Cliffy B]

Could you post some teaser shots man? The suspense is killing me already

[EJM]

Well..........maybe one.

[EJM]

I was a bit curious to post this. I'm just doing a roll call to see Who's already made/finished a Montana, Who's already started/in progress one, and Who's planning on starting one?

From what I remember, here's everybody I can think of. If I forgot someone, then I'm sorry.

Myself (Hypothetical late WWII configuration):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/ ... ana001.jpg

Montana by Michael Poirier
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Montana by Imre Somogyi
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Montana by Jan Schulz can still be seen here. Not sure how much longer this site will stay up though.
http://buildingmontana.blogspot.com/

RandyM was building a Montana, but I lost the link to his site/pics.
(EDIT: I think this is his site - http://www.nulspace.com/index.aspx )

The original poster of this thread, GrizzlyBear, was planning on building a Montana long ago, but he got swamped with other life issues.

GTDEATH13 is doing a modernised Montana here:
viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44410

And lancer525 is doing a large scale Montana ship. I'm assuming this is your model Montana in progress? Right, Lancer?
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/ ... 20Montana/

And IIRC, Sauragnmon is also planning on doing a modernised Montana, correct?

So who else have I missed? Anybody else planning on building a Montana in the future? If so, then........
What time frame?
What configuration?
What scale?
What kits will you use?

[lancer525]

I was a bit curious to post this. I'm just doing a roll call to see Who's already made/finished a Montana, Who's already started/in progress one, and Who's planning on starting one?

From what I remember, here's everybody I can think of. If I forgot someone, then I'm sorry.

lancer525 is doing a large scale Montana ship. I'm assuming this is your model Montana in progress? Right, Lancer?
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/ ... 20Montana/

If so, then........
What time frame?
What configuration?
What scale?
What kits will you use?

Yes, that's me.

As for how long it's going to take, well... It takes as long as it takes! I honestly don't really have a good guess, other than to say it's going to take around a year, since I am designing all the parts as well.

The configuration is late 1940s, as best as I can.

Scale: 1/200.

No kit, I'm designing it for 65lb cardstock. I've completed the hull skeleton so far, and am now working on developing the skins for the hull plating, and the basic shapes for the superstructure and deck bits.

How's that?

[Cliffy B]

So who else have I missed? Anybody else planning on building a Montana in the future? If so, then........
What time frame?
What configuration?
What scale?
What kits will you use?

Time Frame: 1955 (In my time line that will be immediate postwar)

Config: Late WWII meets Korean War with some 60's influences as well for fun.

Scale: 1/700

Kits: I have two Tamiya 1/700 Iowas, one is WWII config and the other is 1980s. Think I'll pick up another of each and do some comparison builds of Iowas and Montanas in different configs.

Build Time Frame: Won't even start until I'm done with my current builds for 2 dios equaling 5-6 ships including one carrier with a full airwing. Look for my Montana to be started about this time next year? Maybe?

[Sauragnmon]

Timeframe - 1950's/Extended WWII Scenario
Config - 3"/50RF fit, focus towards improved AAW.
Scale - 1/700, the Divine Scale.
Kit - not sure, probably get my hands on the IHP kit somewhere.

I figure I'll keep my Whifs mild - my Tillmax and my Montana will be WW2/Late fits, to go with some of my other WW2 era battlewagons, while the Iowas will see various Modern incarnations like BBBGH and BBVG in addition to the BBGN.

[JasonW]

this topic got me thinking. I have a 1/700 Imperial Hobby kit for the Montana that I have been itching to start but am unable to decide upon what time frame to build her as. I had thought it would be pretty cool to do her in a mid-80's modernization with Phalanx, Harpoon and Tomahawks on board as well as maybe some 5" single mounts and a new radar and sensor fit. I have both a Trumpeter 1980's Iowa and a Tamiya WW2 Missouri as potential donor kits depending on what era/time frame I decide on. The IHP kit has a resin hull and some resin superstructure as well as some metal main gun turrets. The donor kits and various Skywave weapons sets will contribute the rest.

Any thoughts from the crew here on how I should fit her out?

[Sauragnmon]

Jason,

Knowing how built-up her base superstructure is, I would dare to say it would be potentially a hassle to convert her to a modernized layout, though in some ways it wouldn't be that hard at all, considering how minimal the conversion work was in some places around the structure. It just comes down to how much you're willing to cut out of the Modern Iowa in order to get the rebuild you need. Of course, it would be interesting to then take the Trumpy Iowa and give her the As Planned layout with the boat deck in the center - when they were taking off the 40mm towers on the Iowa, for example, they actually found the original boat deck rails that had already been in place before her configuration change for the WW2 fitting. Food for thought there.

[JasonW]

Jason,

Knowing how built-up her base superstructure is, I would dare to say it would be potentially a hassle to convert her to a modernized layout, though in some ways it wouldn't be that hard at all, considering how minimal the conversion work was in some places around the structure. It just comes down to how much you're willing to cut out of the Modern Iowa in order to get the rebuild you need. Of course, it would be interesting to then take the Trumpy Iowa and give her the As Planned layout with the boat deck in the center - when they were taking off the 40mm towers on the Iowa, for example, they actually found the original boat deck rails that had already been in place before her configuration change for the WW2 fitting. Food for thought there.

I like the idea of taking the left overs from the Trumpy kit and giving her the as planned layout. I took a look in my Friedman book and found some pics of the preliminary design model on page 313. In the Garzke/Dulin volume on US battleships there is another picture on page 110 which shows the plan a little better. No drawings of that design though. I'd like to find some plan and elevation view drawings of her in that configuration, but haven't seen them in either of those two books. Any ideas?

Another thought I had for the Trumpy hull/remnants was possibly a Shinano style aircraft carrier conversion. Hmmm.

[Sauragnmon]

All I know, is that the boat rails were found under her 40mm towers when they were going about the refit, which would lend itself to suggest that the boat deck would have been there, in a position above the 5" mounts. Of course, one could suggest leaving the Trumpy Kit out of this, and instead going between the Tamiya kit and the Montana - the Tamiya kit has all five mounts per side intact, while Trumpy's is primarily meant to be the modernized Iowa fit. You could turn the Montana into a WW2 fit rather directly, with Flaktowers and such, and then have that open space turned over to boat decks and the like on the Tamiya Iowa, with the boats between the stacks and such. From there, you could do something else entirely with the Trumpy Iowa, in a more modern bent, but with a different flavour than the old ABL Fit Iowa.

[lancer525]

I'm very curious about this boat-deck thing.

Given that all the imagery I've ever seen of the Montanas, including this one:



I always thought that there was supposed to be space between the stacks. Am I missing something, or is there a peculiarity here that I just didn't know about?

Can someone give more details on this? It appears that I don't have as good an understanding of the construction of these ships as I thought I did.

[JasonW]

All I know, is that the boat rails were found under her 40mm towers when they were going about the refit, which would lend itself to suggest that the boat deck would have been there, in a position above the 5" mounts. Of course, one could suggest leaving the Trumpy Kit out of this, and instead going between the Tamiya kit and the Montana - the Tamiya kit has all five mounts per side intact, while Trumpy's is primarily meant to be the modernized Iowa fit. You could turn the Montana into a WW2 fit rather directly, with Flaktowers and such, and then have that open space turned over to boat decks and the like on the Tamiya Iowa, with the boats between the stacks and such. From there, you could do something else entirely with the Trumpy Iowa, in a more modern bent, but with a different flavour than the old ABL Fit Iowa.

I like the way you think.

I've studied the pics in the two books I referenced earlier and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to pull off the boat deck between the stacks initial design arrangement for the Iowa.

The thoughts of a modernized Iowa in a config other than the actual ABL fit is intriguing. I have a bunch of the 1/700 modern Skywave weapons sets. Just off the top of my head, some of the Mk. 13 singles or maybe some of the twin rail launchers amidships ala Albany style might be interesting. Or, possibly a fit as if she were still in active service with some RAM launchers and some AEGIS on a revised superstructure and various other bits might be interesting also.

[JasonW]

I'm very curious about this boat-deck thing.

Given that all the imagery I've ever seen of the Montanas, including this one:



I always thought that there was supposed to be space between the stacks. Am I missing something, or is there a peculiarity here that I just didn't know about?

Can someone give more details on this? It appears that I don't have as good an understanding of the construction of these ships as I thought I did.

We were discussing the original initial design of the Iowa's in regards to the boat deck. The original Montana design model that was done during the design process shows the boat deck similar to what you have built there. However, if one were to do a late war type of Montana fit, it would be feasible to put the 40mm quad mounts/towers where the boat deck and open space between the funnels is on your model, as they did with the Iowa's. Your model is fine (and excellent work by the way) for the Montana original design from what I can see.

I'm trying to find an online picture of the original design model for the Iowa's, which shows where the boat deck would have been originally if she had been built without the 40mm tubs/towers between the funnels. There are pictures of this model in both the Friedman US battleships book on page 313. There are also a couple in the Garzke/Dulin volume on US battleships on page 110/111.

[Sauragnmon]

Jason,

I only think in one way - Outside The Box. I've got a whole lot of whif going on, and I can count the number of straight up builds on one hand I think.

I don't know how the layout would be with the boat deck, but I agree - it shouldn't be too hard. Lancer, we're a little off track on this, as he was talking about what to do with the IHP Monty and the two Iowas he has - a Trumpy Modern, and a Tamiya WW2 - I suggested he do the original Iowa Boat Deck config as an alternative - it was the original plan, and actually, Iowa and I think some of her sisters were already being built with the provision for the boat deck when the "Floating AA Battery" config was handed down the line - as much was discovered when they were in the process of pulling off the towers, and found these odd rails on the deck - nobody knew what they were until they really looked them up, and realized that there was originally a boat deck between the stacks in planning.

Modernized Iowa - I know there was talk of a Mk26 down on the weather deck forward of the gun, with a short magazine, there was also talk of Sea Sparrow on one of the units, though it would have to be hardened. I know you should be able to fit a Mk13 on the 5" position, and if they'd designed one to withstand that kind of pressure, they might still be retained in a few places for the sizable magazine they can carry.

[lancer525]

Oh, thanks for that explanation. I just missed some of that earlier conversation, and that filled in the hole nicely.

And let me be clear. That is NOT my model. That's a photo that a former classmate sent me of another model, believed to be the Navy's demonstration model built in 41. I don't know where that model is today, nor do I know where that photo originated, but I do know this. The thing is almost 25 feet long. It's 1/48 scale. Huge beast.

I wish I had that kind of space, time, budget, and ability.