Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[jjward85]

Hi gang,

I think this is the right thread for this question...

I'm building a modernised 1/700 Missouri (circa 1991) and Trumpeter is the base kit.

I learned far too late that the rear deck is inaccurate for Missouri, and represents New Jersey's refit with the oddly shaped 'tetrahedron' teak around Turret 3.

My fear is that if I take sand paper to the rear of the ship I'm just going to completely ruin it, so I am hoping for an 'overlay' solution using some thin plastic sheet or card. To save myself some potentially fiddly stencilling work, does anyone know if someone produces a deck overlay 'replacement' part or sticker that will correct this?

Or am I simply doomed to having to sand it or come up with the part myself?

[Timmy C]

My fear is that if I take sand paper to the rear of the ship I'm just going to completely ruin it, so I am hoping for an 'overlay' solution using some thin plastic sheet or card. To save myself some potentially fiddly stencilling work, does anyone know if someone produces a deck overlay 'replacement' part or sticker that will correct this?

Or am I simply doomed to having to sand it or come up with the part myself?

I don't think there is, sadly. When I came across the issue a bajillion years ago, I built an elaborate awning across the entire deck to cover it up: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

[bigjimslade]

My second book on the Iowa class is nearing completion. Hopefully, it will be up for sale in a couple of months. It is nearly 400 pages just devoted to armor. It looks like I did about 700 illustrations of my own.

There are 3D renderings that have become so popular:

Diagrams:

There are measured drawings for every armor plate on the ships

Measured drawings of armor attachments and photographs to illustrate

There are some original plans as well.

Hopefully, the book will correct a lot of errors that float around as fact.

I don't know what to compare the book to. It's kinds, sorta like Anatomy of the Ship books used to be. Its a little larger than an ATOS book but it's just devoted to one aspect of the ship so it goes into much more depth.

Now I have to decide which topic to finish next for volume 3.

[miserendino]

Hello,

I'm prepping for a build of the USS Missouri mid-1945. In a couple of sources I've read that the Iowa-class were each fitted with 8 dual 20mm Oerlikon mounts. However the sources don't indicate where they were fitted. None of the deck layout plans I've reviewed show them either. Did the Missouri ever truly carry the twin mounts? And if so can someone point me to a source for where.

The kit it the 1/350 Hobby Boss by way of Trumpeter from the looks of it. Artworx wood deck and various odd bits from Veteran Models, Eduard, and Bunker Studios.

Thanks,

-J

[TZoli]

According to various sources To the Iowas carried only eight twin Oerlikons from 1945 onwards. (Iowa from March, Missouri and Wisconsin from May and New Jersey from June) (Wisconsin might only carried 6 twin)
Other sources claim that Iowa and New Jersey had 16 twins by early 1947, Missouri 32 twins by late 1947 and Wisconsin 25 twins by mid 1946, 18x by early 1947 and 16x by 1951.

They were however considered/included for the CIP (Class Improvement Plan, SCB-74E) of the class but that did not carried out.
The CIP included radar (air, surface, gunnery) updates, replacement of the 40mm quad Boforses by 3"/50 Twins and replace the single Oerlikons by twins by a 2 to 1 basis so the actual number of barrels were to remain the same but the crew requirement would reduce drastically. But this was from around 1954/55 and soon the cruisers which got the CIP did not receive the twin Oerlikons owning to their uselessness against kamikazes and modern aircraft. The CIP AA Armament would consider:
10x2 5"/38 Mark 12, 16x2 3"/50 RF Mark 22 and 24x2 20mm/70 Oerlikon Mark 4 guns.
Radar fit would be SPS-8 Air Search, SPS-12 Surface Search, 6x Mark 56 / SPG-56 and 3x Mark 63 / SPG-63 gunnery control. And usual gunnery radars atop the range finders.

[miserendino]

[quote="TZoli"]According to various sources To the Iowas carried only eight twin Oerlikons from 1945 onwards. (Iowa from March, Missouri and Wisconsin from May and New Jersey from June) (Wisconsin might only carried 6 twin)
Other sources claim that Iowa and New Jersey had 16 twins by early 1947, Missouri 32 twins by late 1947 and Wisconsin 25 twins by mid 1946, 18x by early 1947 and 16x by 1951.

--------------------

Thanks for the info. I kept digging after I posted this and found set of deck plans that shows the Missouri in '46-'47. The plan shows the location for 8 twin mounts, and an unused location for 2 more. The first location was the 2 mounts just aft of the capstans. The 2nd location was on the elevated platform between the 3rd and 4th 5" mounts - there were 3 singles there and they are replaced by 2 twins. Funny thing is the kit instructions show only 2 mounts there so maybe that's what they had in mind. The last pair were aft of the last set of quad 40s just below the aft fire control.

The 2 20mm singles on the bow were supposed to be replaced with twins but they were never installed.

I'll keep digging to see if I can find corroborating evidence in pictures and the like.

[TZoli]

From Anatomy of the ship: The Battleship Iowa:

In addition to the Bofors guns, much lighter 20mm/70 anti-aircraft
guns were used on Iowa. Designed by the Swiss company Oerlikon and
adapted by the US Navy in 1940, they provided anti-aircraft fire against
closest targets. High rate of fire and simplicity of use were this weapon�s
biggest qualities. Ammunition was fed from spiral 60-round magazines.
USS Iowa carried 60 single manually operated Mk4 pedestal mounts
when commissioned. They were equipped with modern Mk14 gun
sights that enabled very effective aiming. However, after World War II it
became clear that the Oerlikon gun was no longer a useful AA weapon.
In 1946 all single mounts were removed and replaced with light Mk24
twin mounts, but these too were soon taken away.

The 1947 drawing shows 16 such mountings:
- 2 at the tip of the nose
- 1-1 next and under of the forwardmost 5" twin turrets (where the salutings guns are)
- 1-1 above the side mounted boats
- 2-2 next and under to the Bofors pack between the funnels
- 2-2 at both sides of the 3rd 16" turret on the deck
- 1-1 at both sides of the 3rd turret barrels in the aft Oerlikon area.

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?mode=view&id=148346&sid=91ddfd379cb3f0f1611e4d7d7b1acdf1

[Fliger747]

It was the advent of the Kamikaze and faster aircraft that caused disuse of the 20 mm Oerlikons. During the Okinawa invasion the sound of the 20's opening up was a signal to "take cover". The wartime expansion of the light AA caused huge overcrowding on warships, US Cruisers frequently had a larger compliment than the Hood! Even the valuable quad Bofors, a war winning AA weapon, was becoming obsolete due to increasing aircraft speeds and lack of an ability to have a VT fuze incorporated. The 3"50 twins were often fitted post war to many vessels, though never actually fitted aboard the Iowa's.

Always a challenge to sort out which ship had what, when.

[NavyShooter]

"Sister ships, not twins"

That's how we put it in the current Navy. Our ships are very similar, but between equipment updates, deployment specific gear, and such, there's no time that any two Halifax class ships have looked 'alike'.

NS

[Fliger747]

Whitehurst (Which I modeled) and England were one hull number apart, built in the same yard and finished weeks apart, wonder how different they were, certainly they diverged with service. Larger ships being hatched had input from their Captains, for example modifications to Alaska and New Jersey. Stoddard, modeled by Hank Strub and Watts were one hull number apart and both built at the same yard certainly diverged over the years, Watts retained the 5 gun configuration and Stoddrd became a 4 gun Fletcher.

As to the Iowa sisters, measuring g the length of one accurately a project! The length might depend a lot on the temperature of the water, air and current sunshine!

[bigjimslade]

According to various sources To the Iowas carried only eight twin Oerlikons from 1945 onwards. (Iowa from March, Missouri and Wisconsin from May and New Jersey from June) (Wisconsin might only carried 6 twin)
Other sources claim that Iowa and New Jersey had 16 twins by early 1947, Missouri 32 twins by late 1947 and Wisconsin 25 twins by mid 1946, 18x by early 1947 and 16x by 1951.

The records indicate that NJ got 8 twins in her final war refit (when she got the square bridge).
2x Bow
2x Aft of the Capstan
2x End of the superstructure
2x The aft positions at either side of turret 3.

During her first Korean tour, there were 16
2x Bow
2x Aft of Capstan
2x Below the side Mk37 Directors.
4x Gallery Below the group of 3/side 40mm mounts
2x End of Superstructure
4x Sides of turret 3
They were removed for the second Korean War tour.

That may give a hint to the positions on Missouri.

[mconnelley]

1/200 Trumpeter USS Missouri hull correction

Some time ago someone was working on the Trumpeter 1/200 USS Missouri kit. They had designed a replacement for the rear hull in CAD, 3D printed it out, and grafted it onto the back end of the hull. Maybe it was this guy: http://www.nulspace.com/hobbies/bb63_20 ... ction.aspx, or someone else.

I have access to a 3D printer at work, so I thought I might give this a try. Does anyone know who did this, and have their contact information?

Mike

[Timmy C]

Probably RandyM: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4683&p=877426&hili ... on#p877426

But might also be BigJimSlade, whose CAD work you can also see in the above link.

[Fliger747]

Hank Strub would know as he wanted to use one of these but its availability fell through and he used more traditional methods.

[BB62vet]

Hank Strub would know as he wanted to use one of these but its availability fell through and he used more traditional methods.

It was RandyM as Timmy C so stated. He designed and printed the after 19" section of the 1/200 Trumpeter MISSOURI hull in 3D using a commercial filament printer. You could contact him regarding this project, etc. I think he's still a member of the forum. (see Timmy C's link above)

I ended up correcting the hull using other methods as his hull section was sort of a "one and done" type situation.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Builder 2010]

With the help of the Takom Missouri 16"50 cal turret model, some information and pictures from Ryan Syzmanski of the Battleship New Jersey Muesum and Memorial, and Jim Slade, my own fact finding mission to the Big J and many images and drawings, I created this:

The model is now on permanent display at the New Jersey Battleship in the ward room. The build took 11 months, hundreds of 3D drawings, and hundreds more 3D printed and fabricated parts. Many of them seconds and rejects.

If you would like to have me describe the entire process, let me know. I have posted complete build threads in Fine Scales Models forum and Kit Maker Netork forum, but I could do it here also.

Everthing is there on all six decks. Even the elusive electric decks is fully equiped with its 7 hydraulic motor-pump systems.

I'm now working on another model for the Big J: the 5"38 Mark 28 secondary battery. This too will be a full cutaway from the gun house to the magazines three decks below. It will be in 1:48 instead of 1:78 like the big gun. Originally, I was going to base it on another Takom kit, but it was no longer available. It's the wrond series anyway, being the lighter Mark 38 found on Sumner class destroyers and the like. It was 1/35 and actually a bit big for my printer. Here is a taste of the design work I'm doing on the 5" turret. Again, if you're interested in a build thread, please let me know.

[BB62vet]

B2010,

Very nice project - Well done! - quite detailed and convincing. I don't recall seeing the recoil section of the barrels (just fwd. of the bloomers) being bright silver, but then we were in commission when I served in NEW JERSEY in 1968-69 and that slide area had a coat of protective lubricant which probably darkened the metal.

I've also been doing 3D printing of parts for my recent builds and have a 1:100 scale Mk. 28 Dual 5"-gun mount that I "scratchbuilt" 3D design/printed - but it is not a cut-away as yours will be. It's over on the Online Scratchbuild forum (http://shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewto ... 3&t=371601).

Glad you're going it on your own - I'm finding the kits ALWAYS have issues and doing it myself eliminates those mistakes right off the bat!

Hank

[Builder 2010]

I used the after-market aluminum barrels and liked that they were already metal. I didn't do hardly any weathering at all. It's a museum teaching model, not a depiction of a specific time or place. On my Missouri model I did apply some tamiya clear on the slide to show the lubricant on it. Getting the paint to stick to the aluminum was challenging. I'm going to post all the work on the 5" turret as another thread.

[Fliger747]

My recollection is the barrel slides are currently painted black on the museum ships. Modelers are always allowed their own interpretations, it is to some extent an art form! Finding all the information for the interior of these mounts and turrets is quite challenging. For my single open 5" 38 much photo interpretation was necessary!

Nice work!

[ArmchairAdmiral]

What's the thing that looks like giant window frames below the ship's name?