Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[bigjimslade]

Ok guys, I have received help before, so here goes my latest question. What changes, if any, were made to the New Jersey from the time it was recommisioned in 83/84 to when it was decomissioned in the early '90's?

Some of the big ones:

The helipad was rearranged for stern landings, rather than diagonal to the CL.
The aft missile platform was widened for a gantry track to reload tomahawk missiles.
The mainmast was expanded to house an antenna for pioneer RPVs.
An antenna was added to the movie projector booth for pioneer PRVs.
The port 40mm tub was modified for a 100ll fuel tank for RPVs
A hangar for RPVs was added aft of turret 3.
Cranes were added on either side of the aft uptake for reloading harpoon missiles.
The paravane foot at the bow was removed.

+ others. I know everything but I can't remember it all at once.
+ others that were added immediately after recommissioning. Not all the initial work had been completed when she was recommissioned. The cart for reloading 20mm ammo on the starboard side was added shortly after recommissioning.

There were many internal changes as well,

[Admhawk]

Answering a post from 2005?!?!? You must be bored!!

Ok guys, I have received help before, so here goes my latest question. What changes, if any, were made to the New Jersey from the time it was recommisioned in 83/84 to when it was decomissioned in the early '90's?

Some of the big ones:

The helipad was rearranged for stern landings, rather than diagonal to the CL.
The aft missile platform was widened for a gantry track to reload tomahawk missiles.
The mainmast was expanded to house an antenna for pioneer RPVs.
An antenna was added to the movie projector booth for pioneer PRVs.
The port 40mm tub was modified for a 100ll fuel tank for RPVs
A hangar for RPVs was added aft of turret 3.
Cranes were added on either side of the aft uptake for reloading harpoon missiles.
The paravane foot at the bow was removed.

+ others. I know everything but I can't remember it all at once.
+ others that were added immediately after recommissioning. Not all the initial work had been completed when she was recommissioned. The cart for reloading 20mm ammo on the starboard side was added shortly after recommissioning.

There were many internal changes as well,

[Timmy C]

Trumpeter 1/700 Iowa in her open bridge configuration has just been posted on their site. Unusually for a ship model, they bothered to post built-up photos of the kit: http://www.trumpeter-china.com/index.ph ... =3951&l=en

[Timmy C]

Every detail is overscale in 1/700. Railings, antenna mesh, planking, porthole brows, AA gun barrels. Sand them down if you don't like them. No point going on about it.

[bigjimslade]

The next book will include 4-view diagrams showing the location of every hull plate, the thickness, and type of joint. Hopefully, some kit manufacturer will get the hull form (and plating lines) right after that.

[Sutho]

Differences between the Iowa class and using the Tamiya 1/350 kits.

I have noticed on some detail-up sets, particularly Pontos, when detailing up the USS Missouri or even the USS Iowa using those kits for the New Jersey, that on the main deck each side of turret 2, exists a ladder that leads up to 1 deck. On the starboard side of Iowa and Missouri this ladder and V-shaped structure appears to be further forward where on the port side ladder beside the turret is further aft. The Pontos kits have you cutting away the structure on the port side to make the wall just slightly aft.

My question is that did Tamiya get it wrong?, or was the deck on the USS New Jersey different to the other battleships. I mention that I am using a modern USS New Jersey hull 1/350 scale but it also appears to be the same for the WWII version of the USS Missouri.

Any input on this difference/alteration?

[BB62vet]

Differences between the Iowa class and using the Tamiya 1/350 kits.

I have noticed on some detail-up sets, particularly Pontos, when detailing up the USS Missouri or even the USS Iowa using those kits for the New Jersey, that on the main deck each side of turret 2, exists a ladder that leads up to 1 deck. On the starboard side of Iowa and Missouri this ladder and V-shaped structure appears to be further forward where on the port side ladder beside the turret is further aft. The Pontos kits have you cutting away the structure on the port side to make the wall just slightly aft.

My question is that did Tamiya get it wrong?, or was the deck on the USS New Jersey different to the other battleships. I mention that I am using a modern USS New Jersey hull 1/350 scale but it also appears to be the same for the WWII version of the USS Missouri.

Any input on this difference/alteration?

Sutho,
The IOWA class BB's 01 Level (not deck) is NOT symmetrical on both sides. Here is a blow up of the 1950 BB-63 BoGP for the 01 Level Fwd around Turret 2's barbette. You can see that the ladders on both sides are slightly altered in location. This is typical for ALL 4 of the IOWA class BB's.

01 Level Fwd_1.JPG (17.61 KiB) Viewed 56458 times

I can't recall the 1/350th Tamiya kit, but I believe they got this correct.

Hope this helps!

HMS

[Sutho]

Differences between the Iowa class and using the Tamiya 1/350 kits.

I have noticed on some detail-up sets, particularly Pontos, when detailing up the USS Missouri or even the USS Iowa using those kits for the New Jersey, that on the main deck each side of turret 2, exists a ladder that leads up to 1 deck. On the starboard side of Iowa and Missouri this ladder and V-shaped structure appears to be further forward where on the port side ladder beside the turret is further aft. The Pontos kits have you cutting away the structure on the port side to make the wall just slightly aft.

My question is that did Tamiya get it wrong?, or was the deck on the USS New Jersey different to the other battleships. I mention that I am using a modern USS New Jersey hull 1/350 scale but it also appears to be the same for the WWII version of the USS Missouri.

Any input on this difference/alteration?

Sutho,
The IOWA class BB's 01 Level (not deck) is NOT symmetrical on both sides. Here is a blow up of the 1950 BB-63 BoGP for the 01 Level Fwd around Turret 2's barbette. You can see that the ladders on both sides are slightly altered in location. This is typical for ALL 4 of the IOWA class BB's.

01 Level Fwd_1.JPG

I can't recall the 1/350th Tamiya kit, but I believe they got this correct.

Hope this helps!

HMS

Thanks for the quick response.

For information, the 1/350 Tamiya kits that I have are symmetrical in regard to that design feature. I have had to cut away the port side and use the included photo etch to place the superstructure in line with the diagram you included.

So far I have completed a modern Iowa just before it was finally decommissioned, a WWII Missouri in its original camo during workups and I am contemplating doing the New Jersey with round bridge in 1945 just before the final refit of the bridge that made it square. The reason for this is that I believe the Pontos upgrade set for Missouri could easily be used for New Jersey in some areas that are not easily changable.

[ModelMonkey]

Can anyone confirm or deny that Iowa-class ships had wood deck gratings on the aft part of the navigating bridge deck, aft of the enclosed bridge, during World War Two? My references show they were present at the end of their service lives but none of my references are clear enough to see any were present or not during World War Two.

Here they are on a modernized Iowa-class ship.

Thanks in advance!

[BB62vet]

Steve,

Yes - wood gratings covered the Nav Bridge metal deck when NEW JERSEY was refitted in 1967-68. This was a follow thru from prior (WWII, Korea, '50s) eras. As far as I know, cruisers and destroyers also had wood grating on the open bridge decking, as well. We had them on STODDARD in the '60s as did probably all FLETCHER class DDs (and others). It was a std. item.

If I can locate any substantiating photos, I will post them.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks so much, Hank!

I've haven't had any luck finding sufficiently clear photos of the nav bridge decks as they appeared in World War Two. Some references for other ships during World War Two suggest no gratings were present at that time on those ships, just non-skid on steel deck. Perhaps gratings were seen as a fire hazard at that time? I do not know. It's not at all clear whether the gratings were present from commissioning or they were a sensical and practical post-war addition.

The reason I ask is that I am revisiting some my oldest designs, including Iowa-class bridges, and can add grating detail to the models but can't (yet) confirm they were present on the actual ships during World War Two.

[BB62vet]

Steve,

I too, cannot confirm (photo-wise) the WWII or Korean War era deck grates. One photo of NEW JERSEY on NavSource shows the port Flag Box & decking - perforated holes in the steel deck. Just a "guess" that the gratings would possibly be post-war additions. A photo of STODDARD (1959) port side shows the wood grates leaning up against the pilot house while they were cleaning/painting the open bridge decking. So, they were present post-WWII.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[ModelMonkey]

the gratings were most likely not there during the war as most burnables were removed or not installed.

I agree. I am hoping someone will have photos to prove it.

[William Smallshaw]

Reaching back in a rather aged memory�. a former officer on the Massachusetts told me that the steel decks at the bridge levels were cover by composite, rubber cloth fiber mats similar to door mats. The door mats that have rectangular rubber elements interlinked by metal rods. Not intending to create any more confusion over the question at hand�..

[Admhawk]

These are the best photos I could find during the war years. I don't see any wood grating.
I doubt they were left off due to fire hazard, the whole teak deck would've been removed if that were the reason.
Also notice some non-skid pads in a few areas.

[Fliger747]

Not a good example, but Missouri currently has some grating in limited areas on the bridge wings but not on the area surrounding the bridge level conning tower. This is only relevant as to general USN practice, whereas often the helmsman might have a grate. I'll have to look at photos to see if the Missouri Helmsman in the conning tower had a grate, which might to might not be accurate to any period.

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks so much, fellas!

Most of the World War Two-era photos I have access to simply don't show the area of the navigating bridge deck aft of the enclosed (or open) bridge of any ship of the class very well. None of the photos show any deck grating at all in any WW2 photos. From the few photos that do show the area, and poorly at that, what can be seen appears to be either painted steel deck or solid rubberized matting over steel deck.

The best photos I have are these two of Missouri taken in 1945, shown here. The deck appears to be either bare steel or covered in solid rubberized matting, just as William Smallshaw remembered.

Shown here is a 1944 plan for asbestos mats placed on the interior of the enclosed bridges, and other platforms, of all ships of the class. Note that it shows BB-61 and BB-62 with open bridges. This confirms that asbestos mats were installed on decks and platforms exposed to the weather, not just interior spaces. Therefore, any mats laid aft of the enclosed bridge may have had an asbestos component to them, too. This also suggests that fire and/or radiant heat protection was a serious enough consideration that some decks and platforms were covered in asbestos, at least those that were associated with a permanent standing watch.

The photo below shows the pilot house roof of USS New Jersey BB-61, one deck above the navigating bridge deck. In this 1943 photo, no wood gratings are present and it appears that no asbestos matting was present on this level. Photos of other ships of the class are consistent, in that no wood grating or matting was present on the pilot house roof (O5 level) of any ship of the class during World War Two.

The pilot house roof (one deck above the navigating bridge deck) is bare steel in this photo of New Jersey.

As of this writing, I'm of the opinion that most likely, during World War Two, there was no wood deck grating installed on the navigating bridge of these ships. Wood grating was most likely a post-war addition. Happy to be proven wrong so please keep looking through your references and let us all know what you find.

[Sutho]

I want to bring up the WWII AA gun configurations for the USS New Jersey 1944-45 with round bridge and top mast added.

I am looking carefully at the 20mm AA guns midships and notice on the lower row there are 5 guns in a line and on the level above it there appears to be only 2 guns side by side. On Missouri there are 3 guns and 5 below.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct. I am noticing multiple differences for the New Jersey to Missouri after the ship was refitted for various occasions in the war. I am trying to model it with the round bridge and top mast.

[chuck]

That is correct. AFAIK Missouri is the only one of the 4 sisters to have 3 20mm oerlikons there. It seems to be an ad hoc ship yard choice. Because the 3 20mm mounts are so crowded they have reduced arcs.

[Timmy C]

Looks like the Plans are wrong, then. Almost like Booklets of General Plans are for illustrative purposes only and not necessarily reflective of actual practice as-built, and should not be the one and only answer to questions regarding actual ship configurations.