Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Dick J]

All I can say is "WOW". Like the Saratoga photo I found years ago, nobody noticed it in the background. Going by the captioning, everybody overlooked it because the foreground object was all that was mentioned. Amazing what is lurking back there!! (Even more amazing is that those background "objects" were quite often overlooked by the censors - after all, those "piddly" things in the foreground couldn't possibly have any of that "secret stuff" on them.

[lvsquarerigger]

What a great find and at such a serendipitous time for me as I am deciding how I will model the FC radar! Thanks so much.

I saved the photo to my computer to enlarge and use as I figure out what to do with the radar but found it pixilated too much to get as good a rendition as you did in your enlargements here. Again thanks for great work.

James

[MartinJQuinn]

As for splinter mats....they were also slung on splinter shields/bulwarks, not just the rails/lifelines. I would guess this was to increase protection from blast/splinters over inadequate STS.

Jerry Phillips

Good point. However, I would "argue" that the railings on the flag plot level are more than likely railings with canvas dodgers, not splinter shields. They seem to match the railings at the back of the island on the next level up (back of the flag plot roof).

All I can say is "WOW". Like the Saratoga photo I found years ago, nobody noticed it in the background.

After I finished posting the photos, I thought the same thing!

[John W.]

Martin -
You can also see the forward upper 1.1" splinter shields and what appears to be the aftmost of the two mounts on the upper tier. Therefore this photo was taken some time after the 8" mounts were removed. So the rest of the island and what can be seen of the stack is probably nearly the final configuration before she sailed. I'm going to keep looking at this for a while.

[Jon C Ryckert]

What was in the tub dirctly above the FC radar? I had to be installed at Hunters Point because it is not there in the pic (page 21 of WP33)of the ship in Ms 1 when Lex arrived at H.P. . Also, what is the object that looks like it is mounted to the railing just to the lower left of the FC radar . It looks similar to the foundations for the 'not' installed forward 1.1 directors on the Arizona. Just throwing that out there for others to look at.

[Dick J]

What was in the tub dirctly above the FC radar? I had to be installed at Hunters Point because it is not there in the pic (page 21 of WP33)of the ship in Ms 1 when Lex arrived at H.P.

If you are referring to the projection from the forward side of the air defence platform, it was already present in this photo. http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020212.jpg Saratoga had the change from the end of her Puget Sound refit that ended in May/June of '41.

[lvsquarerigger]

What was in the tub dirctly above the FC radar? I had to be installed at Hunters Point because it is not there in the pic (page 21 of WP33)of the ship in Ms 1 when Lex arrived at H.P.

If you are referring to the projection from the forward side of the air defence platform, it was already present in this photo. http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020212.jpg Saratoga had the change from the end of her Puget Sound refit that ended in May/June of '41.

I noticed the same thing whatever it is and did include it in my model but does anyone really know what it was for? It seems funny to me to have that blank space at the front of the 5" fire control platform.

James

[Jon C Ryckert]

What was in the tub dirctly above the FC radar? I had to be installed at Hunters Point because it is not there in the pic (page 21 of WP33)of the ship in Ms 1 when Lex arrived at H.P.

If you are referring to the projection from the forward side of the air defence platform, it was already present in this photo. http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020212.jpg Saratoga had the change from the end of her Puget Sound refit that ended in May/June of '41.

Dick, I think that it projects further out than what is shown in the pic that you liked to. If you could please, compare the upper pic on pae 24 to the your pic on page 21 and let me know your thoughts.

[Jerry Phillips]

Respectfully disagree Jon. I refer to photos in CW #11, pgs. 16, 36, and CW #33, pgs 21, 24, and 27. These positions on the fwd Mk 19 platform appear to be simply lookout/spotting positions, installed on both CV-2/3 in 1941. Different angles of photos seem to show all the same size. Just my humble opinion......

Jerry Phillips

[Dick J]

I think what you have is an optical illusion. When the 8" director is closed in, the projection seems smaller. When the 8" director position is opened up, the projection looks larger. But it is the same size in both cases.

[Jon C Ryckert]

My humble apologies Dick. I dug out my CW11 and the two pics on p. 16 clearly proved me wrong. The shadows in the lower pic played tricks on me.

[Dick J]

No apology necessary. This board is here for all of us to learn from and share with each other. I have had my observations questioned before, and some of those times have gone back and taken another look - and then found that I had to rethink my position. It's amazing what you can find on some of those "rethinking" expeditions!

[Jon C Ryckert]

Were the circular portions of the 5"/25 platforms still perforated in May, 42? Seen pictures of them being perforated in the 30's but I am wondering if they still were when they added the splintersheilds. Not planning on doing that to my model, just killing my curiosity.

[lvsquarerigger]

James Noblin e-mailed me this picture today, and gave me permission to post it here. It was scanned at the NARA branch in San Bruno California (outside of San Francisco). Taken on April 13, 1942 at the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard, the subject of the photo is a yard craft, YD-69.

As with many archival photos, what is in the background of the picture is more interesting than the subject matter itself. In this case, in the background is the Lady Lex undergoing her final refit.

YD-69_04131942.jpg

Zoom in a little closer, and you can see the outline of the extended/enclosed flag plot being constructed.

YD-69_04131942_cropped.jpg

Zoom in even further, and you can see the extend/enclosed flag plot in a little more detail, plus you can see the outline of what looks like the FC radar - or at least the installation of said radar - on the roof of the spotting top.

YD-69_04131942_islandcrop.jpg

These photos seem to confirm what Stern wrote in his book about how the Lex's enclosed flag plot was constructed. They also seem to confirm John W's theory on how the extended flag plot looked. Additionally, it looks like, as AA Hoeling mentions in his book "The Lexington Goes Down", that there were splinter mats over railings, and not splinter shields, on the island platforms.

My jaw completely dropped when I saw this photo. Great find by James - appreciate him sharing the photo and letting me post here. Who knows what else is out there lurking behind yard craft?

SInce gettting my new computer set up I was going through some of the pics I had of the Lex and came across the original one I had copied from somewhere that is the same as the one on pgs 50/51 of WP33. I was also looking at the picture here and trying to get better detail for my model. I copied the last in the series to see if it will enlarge better and not pixilate as it did on the old one. It would enlarge, losing a little texture, but still very legible. I noticed just under the boom in the foreground on the 8 inch platform what appears to be some kind of projection or shelf. Also that the front of the structure now seems to be enclosed. Did they perhaps do this to house a radar room for the FC radar? When looking at the photo on 50/51 it does appear as if some of the front has been enclosed and the part where the windows would fold down to open the column on the roof between the 8" and 5" platforms is gone. There is something there sticking up but too fuzzy to identify. Possibly a man standing in the open space? Or perhaps something stuck on the roof that was closed in and is associated with the radar? It seems that every new disclosure answers some things and just as much opens new ones up for discussion.

[Dick J]

It does appear that the forward 8" control station had been converted to a radar room. To quote from the A.A.Hoehling book "The Lexington Goes Down", on page 57 he states: "(He) enjoyed his station 'up in the forward superstructure three decks above the bridge'. . . . Harold was placed there near the secret radar shack since he was a maintenance man. He had found 'so many bugs' in this wonderful new equipment that neither he nor his fellow technicians ever 'did succeed in getting it to function properly.'"

The 8" control station was divided into two parts. The central area, which housed the actual director, was slightly higher than the observation area which surrounded it. The top of the director would normally be enclosed by panels which formed the structure between the 8" and 5" control stations. For combat, those panels could be lowered, fully exposing the top of the director, and allowing it an unrestricted view. What you are seeing projecting out the top of the 8" control station (aft of the MK-3) was probably the director itself. (This director was for surface fire, and could be used for that purpose by the 5" guns. The MK-19's on the upper levels were for AA fire.) The surrounding observation area was the part which had some of the windows filled in and it was the part that was probably converted into the radar control station.

As for the projection in the Pearl Harbor photo, we should probably not read too much into it at this point. It could be an addition, or it could be only scaffolding (more of which is visible on the nav-bridge level supporting work on the flag-bridge level above). Until more info surfaces, we can't be sure what that projection is, or even if it was a permanent attachment.

[lvsquarerigger]

It does appear that the forward 8" control station had been converted to a radar room. To quote from the A.A.Hoehling book "The Lexington Goes Down", on page 57 he states: "(He) enjoyed his station 'up in the forward superstructure three decks above the bridge'. . . . Harold was placed there near the secret radar shack since he was a maintenance man. He had found 'so many bugs' in this wonderful new equipment that neither he nor his fellow technicians ever 'did succeed in getting it to function properly.'"

The 8" control station was divided into two parts. The central area, which housed the actual director, was slightly higher than the observation area which surrounded it. The top of the director would normally be enclosed by panels which formed the structure between the 8" and 5" control stations. For combat, those panels could be lowered, fully exposing the top of the director, and allowing it an unrestricted view. What you are seeing projecting out the top of the 8" control station (aft of the MK-3) was probably the director itself. (This director was for surface fire, and could be used for that purpose by the 5" guns. The MK-19's on the upper levels were for AA fire.) The surrounding observation area was the part which had some of the windows filled in and it was the part that was probably converted into the radar control station.

As for the projection in the Pearl Harbor photo, we should probably not read too much into it at this point. It could be an addition, or it could be only scaffolding (more of which is visible on the nav-bridge level supporting work on the flag-bridge level above). Until more info surfaces, we can't be sure what that projection is, or even if it was a permanent attachment.

Thank you. I had The Lex goes down for a brief period from the library on an ILL loan but was more into the pictures than actually reading it all. Guess I should have though.

[Tracy White]

It's already been posted in the CV-2 Airgroups thread, but I figure there are more people subscribed here and it's worth a double tap. The CV-2 Airwings page has been largely completed, I just need to finish the entry for the Battle of the Coral Sea. It contains not only the airgroup composition and rough markings, but history, to enable the builder to more easily plan what they need if they want to represent her airgroup at any specific time. Usability feedback encouraged!.

[Jimmy Conway]

Great find James!! Wow! Another piece of the puzzle...thanks for finding it James, and for posting it Martin! As for splinter mats....they were also slung on splinter shields/bulwarks, not just the rails/lifelines. I would guess this was to increase protection from blast/splinters over inadequate STS.

Jerry Phillips

Hi Jerry, if you know please, or some other buddy...............

These splinter mats ( not shields....) were made of what kind of material?

Thank you: Jimmy

[lvsquarerigger]

I was roaming around the web trying to find a really good 1.1 quad mount and came across Master Models 20mm set. I fell in love with the detail although they are a bit pricey and come in sets of 20 so would need two for my Lex with a lot left over. I wondered if anyone is familiar with anything comparable for the 50 cal mgs and the quad 1.1s?

James

[Jon C Ryckert]

A quick question about the sponsons for the forward .50 cal/ 1.1"'s. Do you think that the curved line beneath the 1.1 location in the drawing below is part of a modification that added for additional support for the 1.1" AA guns? I am aware that it does show two portholes, but the port side also has it and there are no portholes . Also to muddy the waters, the drawings of the forward 5" gun sponsons also show one side with portholes in the area of the sponson and the other side without portholes. I'll try to scan the drawings later to clarify this more as I am short on time right now. I ask those of you with WP33 that I have'nt totally confused with this post to look at the pic on page 22 and give me your thoughts on that area of the ship. Thanks, Jon