HMS Prince of Wales

[508medway]

Sutho, The answer is no, they have nothing.

[Sutho]

Sutho, The answer is no, they have nothing.

When did you last ask them?

I just had a reply today advising that most maintenance records are now held by the National Archives. They have also forwarded my request on to another department Military Heraldry and Technology who may be able to help.

They suggested I may well find what I am looking for in the National Archives.

[508medway]

Sutho, The answer is no, they have nothing.

When did you last ask them?

I just had a reply today advising that most maintenance records are now held by the National Archives. They have also forwarded my request on to another department Military Heraldry and Technology who may be able to help.

They suggested I may well find what I am looking for in the National Archives.

I have been doing an annual trek to the AWM and NAA in Canberra for a few years. Back there in 2 weeks in fact. The NAA in Sydney has some Dakin files. 4 hours away sounds like that is where you are.

The AWM holds all the AFOs, CAFOs and CNOs but many of the war years are missing and, any they have, are not AFOs or CAFOs which would have held sample cards in them. The AWM/Navy hold little in the way of camouflage info, the NAA holds most of it. Much of the info is in Professor Dakin�s files. However, no samples of colours.

Colour footage of PoW in Singapore does come from the AWM though. There are some frame shots of them in this topic.

[Sutho]

When did you last ask them?

I just had a reply today advising that most maintenance records are now held by the National Archives. They have also forwarded my request on to another department Military Heraldry and Technology who may be able to help.

They suggested I may well find what I am looking for in the National Archives.[/quote]

I have been doing an annual trek to the AWM and NAA in Canberra for a few years. Back there in 2 weeks in fact. The NAA in Sydney has some Dakin files. 4 hours away sounds like that is where you are.

The AWM holds all the AFOs, CAFOs and CNOs but many of the war years are missing and, any they have, are not AFOs or CAFOs which would have held sample cards in them. The AWM/Navy hold little in the way of camouflage info, the NAA holds most of it. Much of the info is in Professor Dakin�s files. However, no samples of colours.

Colour footage of PoW in Singapore does come from the AWM though. There are some frame shots of them in this topic.[/quote]

It sounds like a good project. I will be happy to get involved and start looking for material too if it can be arranged.

I am finding the home fleet grey concerning/confusing as I am certain that the RN would have had darker decks opposed to all grey ships like the Japanese Navy did during WWII.

[508medway]

When did you last ask them?

I just had a reply today advising that most maintenance records are now held by the National Archives. They have also forwarded my request on to another department Military Heraldry and Technology who may be able to help.

They suggested I may well find what I am looking for in the National Archives.

I have been doing an annual trek to the AWM and NAA in Canberra for a few years. Back there in 2 weeks in fact. The NAA in Sydney has some Dakin files. 4 hours away sounds like that is where you are.

The AWM holds all the AFOs, CAFOs and CNOs but many of the war years are missing and, any they have, are not AFOs or CAFOs which would have held sample cards in them. The AWM/Navy hold little in the way of camouflage info, the NAA holds most of it. Much of the info is in Professor Dakin�s files. However, no samples of colours.

Colour footage of PoW in Singapore does come from the AWM though. There are some frame shots of them in this topic.[/quote]

It sounds like a good project. I will be happy to get involved and start looking for material too if it can be arranged.

I am finding the home fleet grey concerning/confusing as I am certain that the RN would have had darker decks opposed to all grey ships like the Japanese Navy did during WWII.[/quote]

I�ve found most data in Sydney & the ACT. Well those that can be found. Unfortunately, quite often items shown as in the archives can�t be located. That could mean anything from lost, misfiled or mis-recorded in the system and never existed. There are possibly more in Victoria as they hold Williamstown�s records but the only way to get access is to visit there. You can order online, pay for it and read it but the last time I tried that a kind lady rang me up and explained that the archive item I was after was quite large and just looking at the items in the first folder that alone would be over $700. Would I like to cancel the order? I did very quickly. On the other hand, it is free if you go down there.

Decks are fun. Anti slip paint was available in HF Grey as well as �Dark Grey� whatever that might be. That is the description in the fleet order. Being anti slip and presumably fairly matt, even HF Grey would probably have looked different on the decks versus the hull.

From the 1943 CB3098, decks could vary depending on the camo scheme using B30, G20, G10 or G5. Coastal forces had B15 decks. Nothing to do with poor old PoW, she was long gone by then.

[Sutho]

I am certainly open to the possibility of going to Victoria to search their records if any on the subject.

I would also like to see how much colour video the AWM has of HMAS Prince of Wales in Singapore and what I have to do to see it and where I have to go.

[508medway]

I am certainly open to the possibility of going to Victoria to search their records if any on the subject.

I would also like to see how much colour video the AWM has of HMAS Prince of Wales in Singapore and what I have to do to see it and where I have to go.

I'll see if I can find the link. There a whole load of videos on the AWM site that can be downloaded.

[JCRAY]

Thank you! I'm sure all of us would greatly appreciate your assistance!
John

[Sutho]

I have been spending more time looking at those youtube links of Royal Navy ships in WWII. Although I am not a fan of colour film at that period due to fading and incorrect colour matching by the film, I am beginning to see things I have missed before.

Most often in all the colour film the ships appear dark to the point of black and in other areas they look almost white. I think this is reinforcing that 507B may not have existed as has been pointed out. It raised the question of what colour the decks were and on seeing metal deck footage of all the clips I looked at, up close the video seems to show the deck a rusty red metal colour.

If 507B did not exist and home fleet ships were painted in 507A then they would be extremely dark.

I personally would not trust any new colours reproduced based on colour film of the period and I certainly will not be investing any of my money in new batches of paint prodcued that is in any way shape or form based on colour film of the period. Furthermore I will not acknowledge any newly created paint based on colour film to be accurate. I am making this clear now.

I would like to know where that paint of so called 507B came from that suspiciously matches B5 in the colour coat range. Is it in fact B5 or is it based on a RN paint used during the Great War or World War 1.

[508medway]

I am certainly open to the possibility of going to Victoria to search their records if any on the subject.

I would also like to see how much colour video the AWM has of HMAS Prince of Wales in Singapore and what I have to do to see it and where I have to go.

I'll see if I can find the link. There a whole load of videos on the AWM site that can be downloaded.

Try these links. I think PoW is about an hour into the Hobart one.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/F03343/

https://www.awm.gov.au/search/all/?quer ... s&rows=500

I'll let you look at the Pow but here are a couple of screenshots of other ships.

[508medway]

I have been spending more time looking at those youtube links of Royal Navy ships in WWII. Although I am not a fan of colour film at that period due to fading and incorrect colour matching by the film, I am beginning to see things I have missed before.

Most often in all the colour film the ships appear dark to the point of black and in other areas they look almost white. I think this is reinforcing that 507B may not have existed as has been pointed out. It raised the question of what colour the decks were and on seeing metal deck footage of all the clips I looked at, up close the video seems to show the deck a rusty red metal colour.

If 507B did not exist and home fleet ships were painted in 507A then they would be extremely dark.

I personally would not trust any new colours reproduced based on colour film of the period and I certainly will not be investing any of my money in new batches of paint prodcued that is in any way shape or form based on colour film of the period. Furthermore I will not acknowledge any newly created paint based on colour film to be accurate. I am making this clear now.

I would like to know where that paint of so called 507B came from that suspiciously matches B5 in the colour coat range. Is it in fact B5 or is it based on a RN paint used during the Great War or World War 1.

When you say 507B do you mean the pre WW2 HFG or the 50/50 mix 507A/507C which has been misnamed as 507B?

[Sutho]

I have been spending more time looking at those youtube links of Royal Navy ships in WWII. Although I am not a fan of colour film at that period due to fading and incorrect colour matching by the film, I am beginning to see things I have missed before.

Most often in all the colour film the ships appear dark to the point of black and in other areas they look almost white. I think this is reinforcing that 507B may not have existed as has been pointed out. It raised the question of what colour the decks were and on seeing metal deck footage of all the clips I looked at, up close the video seems to show the deck a rusty red metal colour.

If 507B did not exist and home fleet ships were painted in 507A then they would be extremely dark.

I personally would not trust any new colours reproduced based on colour film of the period and I certainly will not be investing any of my money in new batches of paint prodcued that is in any way shape or form based on colour film of the period. Furthermore I will not acknowledge any newly created paint based on colour film to be accurate. I am making this clear now.

I would like to know where that paint of so called 507B came from that suspiciously matches B5 in the colour coat range. Is it in fact B5 or is it based on a RN paint used during the Great War or World War 1.

When you say 507B do you mean the pre WW2 HFG or the 50/50 mix 507A/507C which has been misnamed as 507B?

That is what I would like to know and was hoping that someone would bring up. the 50/50 mix, allegedly does not match 507B in the colour coat range, however I am curious as to how many ships would have used this 50/50 mix and if it was widespread? The other thing I would like to know is that does 507B in the colour coat range match anything in their stock be it Great War or any other RN paint that it may have been mislabeled as.

[Sutho]

Anyone seen this image previously. Allegedly taken in Singapore.

[MartinJQuinn]

I've seen this image before, captioned as being taken in Scapa Flow just after refitting.

[SovereignHobbies]

That looks a lot like Repulse in the background too.

[EJFoeth]

It is. This pic is shown in Ensign I, dated 28th of August. The other pic in Ensign I is IWM image FL 17649.

[Aop Aur]

That looks a lot like Repulse in the background too.

Cannot be mistaken with that camouflage, I suppose...

[Cag]

Hi All

Off the top of my head I cannot remember when Repulse sailed east to cover Indian Ocean convoys so this series of pics must be before that.

Mr Foeth and Mr Quinn are correct as in the other pics the old aircraft carrier Argus and a county class and Sheffield are seen, plus the low hills of Scapa Flow.

I think the full set of pics are in the Raven Roberts book British Battleships of ww2.

Hope this helps
Best wishes
Cag

[Mike E.]

All:

My apologies if this has been dealt with before, but I've noticed in a number of pictures of HMS Prince of Wales and King George V in the earlier phases of their operational careers, that they wore what appears to be dark paint on their decks for short periods of time when both ships were painted an overall mid-gray camouflage scheme. I understand that wet teak decks look dark, but in many of these photos, the deck looks dry.

See these photos of HMS King George V:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205016004

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205016006

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205188287 (in this color photo it is hard to tell whether the decks are dark because they are wet--they certainly look wet--or because they are painted a dark color)

FYI, here are Pathe film footage of HMS Howe or Anson with her decks being painted in a very dark color at the 22 second mark (unless it is a varnish type coating that gives a dark appearance when first applied):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjDRUnPvFXM

So any thoughts about the possibility that HMS Prince of Wales or King George V had their decks painted in dark color early in their careers? Please advise.

Thanks!

Mike E.

[dick]

Hi Mike,

According to a Home Fleet Memorandum dated 20 Aug 1940 decks should have been darkened (see attached). Not all Captains liked doing so though so you have to go by the photographic record to see which did and which did not. However I think it likely that the Captain of the Home Fleet flagship would follow the Fleet guidance!

(There is some evidence that by late 1941 some warships were darkening their decks using MSD.)

Best wishes.