The Ship Model Forum

I am a bit confused by your 'woldings'. There is one just above the mast-top ... but normally there would not be a wolding, rather this is the collection of shrouds that run around the mast top.

The shrouds at this section would also be served, so the rope structure would not be visible.

For served rope at small scales I used silk-covered copper wire, as used for making coils. Once it was difficult to find, but there seems to be a revival of old radio technology and some manufacturers offer it again. I have also looked for it on flea-markets etc.

I think this is what you mean wefalck: "The thicker �rope� wrapped around the mast above the top simulates the top ends of the shrouds."

I believe at this scale, some white glue would do the serving

XXXDAn

Yes indeed, they are the top ends of the shrouds (that's why they are thicker: 0,2mm).
For the rest of the shrouds and ratlines I intend to follow the method Philip Reed describes in his book 'period ship modelmaking': not on the model but separately on a frame. That makes it rather impossible to attach the top end of the shrouds like the real things (which would be pretty hard anyway in this scale).
Simulating the top ends of the shrouds this way is the solution Philip Reed also uses, so I also took that from his book. Once the top ends of the stays and preventer stays are added over this, I think it looks pretty convincing on his models in 1/192.

I have to admit I completely didn't think about the serving of the rope. So thanks for pointing that out Wefalck!
But to be honest, I have already decided not to attempt that level of detail in the rigging. In this scale, I will already be happy to get everything to the correct scale thickness, and the thicker ones to look like rope. Or rather 'feel', as it is already pretty hard to see with the naked eye that the wooldings are made of twisted wire (they are only 0,1mm thick). Some careful painting should make that stand out a bit more, but still...
Anyway, the most important for me will be to get the general feel right: how the ropes 'hang', and the battle damage.
But that's of course a personal choice, so keep the info coming! I'd rather decide what to incorporate and what not based on solid information, than miss something out of ignorance!

I agree, that it would be probably difficult to put up the shrouds as per prototype without causing more 'battle-damage'.

wefalck wrote:I agree, that it would be probably difficult to put up the shrouds as per prototype without causing more 'battle-damage'.

It would be a fun challenge though!
But since I have two ships with 3 masts each to rig, I'll keep it for another project in the future...

I think it would be totally doable if you were using thread, but probably quite challenging using metal...

marijn van gils wrote:

wefalck wrote: But since I have two ships with 3 masts each to rig, I'll keep it for another project in the future...[/color]

Future Project with shrouds?!? THAT SOUNDS PROMISING!!!



XXXDAn

dafi wrote:Future Project with shrouds?!? THAT SOUNDS PROMISING!!!



XXXDAn

Oh, plenty of idea's for future projects with ships from the age of sail! If only there was more time...

I would love to build a sailing ship foundering in a storm. That would allow me to explore more dramatic seascape effects than I could do so far. Maybe a Spanish Galleon hitting the coats of Ireland in 1588?

And I would love to build a restoration era ship of the line too. I just have to find a strong diorama idea for it...
Maybe the surrender of the Prince Royal during the four days battle?:

I would love to build a sailing ship foundering in a storm. That would allow me to explore more dramatic seascape effects than I could do so far. Maybe a Spanish Galleon hitting the coats of Ireland in 1588?

I have given a thought of the foundering 'Zr.Ms. Wassenaar', but I shy away from the project... Your idea about a Spanish Armada galleon gives you ample artistic freedom I think!

Oooh, that would make a great diorama! But not easy, and a lot of work...

A galleon would allow me to at least start from a kit and thereby save some time. Less information on ships of this period allows for more artistic freedom indeed. I could choose to model a specific ship, but I could also go for a 'prototypical' portrait.
But more importantly, a galleon is much higher and shorter than a ship of the line, which I think would work well composition-wise for this type of scene.
And it would also allow me to explore a different period, which is always fun.

I have to admit that this painting of the launch of the Friedland keeps haunting me too:


Please build it Maarten, so I don't have to!

Nice and impressive job to follow!

marijn van gils wrote:Oooh, that would make a great diorama! But not easy, and a lot of work...

A galleon would allow me to at least start from a kit and thereby save some time. Less information on ships of this period allows for more artistic freedom indeed. I could choose to model a specific ship, but I could also go for a 'prototypical' portrait.
But more importantly, a galleon is much higher and shorter than a ship of the line, which I think would work well composition-wise for this type of scene.
And it would also allow me to explore a different period, which is always fun.

I have to admit that this painting of the launch of the Friedland keeps haunting me too:

Please build it Maarten, so I don't have to!

Well, I consider that in earnest indeed, but on scale 1:500...

On that painting: I have been researching that more in depth: I think now it is mirror-imaged. Several reasons:
a) there was no shipyard in that location, North of the city centre in 1810 (instead the 'petit bassin' or Bonapartedok was already excavated on that spot);
b) the building in the background is the French Arsenal, destroyed by fire in 1830 but very recognizable by its arches (not the Hansehuys);
c) the lantern of the Andreas church is closer then the spire of the Our Beloved Virgin church.
These arguments indicate that the sight is observed from the South-West, looking down-stream over the Scheldt.

Meaning: the 'Friedland' and the other six 80-gun Bucentaures were build on the slips of the normal shipyard just north of the Citadel. So, the real image should look more like this: Looks weird, doesn't it?
I'm in contact with an expert from the MAS in Antwerp on the subject. Still in further investigation, according to him mirroring was used often those days, to enhance the composition of a painting.

Thank you very much Iceman 29!


Great research Maarten! That sounds very plausible indeed; it solves all the problems with a location at the north of the city.

Maarten Sch�nfeld wrote:according to him mirroring was used often those days, to enhance the composition of a painting.

I'm sure! And I would guess they would also move other things around if it would enhance the composition. Those two cranes for example are very nicely framing the scene, providing interest to the foreground and background, but they might have been positioned differently in reality. No way of knowing of course, but I'm sure we cannot trust that kind of information from paintings. After all, the painters were not trying to document their subjects as accurately as possible, but rather tried to tell their stories. Also in modelling, we sometimes have to choose our priority between these goals, especially with diorama's...

Meanwhile, I finished the bowsprit:






And parallel with the other masts, I also built this piece:


It will be part of this little sub-scene in the diorama:

FANTASTIC !
Jean

Fantastic work. You've packed in details everywhere.

Nanond

Since I'm still out of superlatives:

What a carnage! Eeeh... I mean: woodage

The carnage will come later I think...

Many thanks everyone!