The Ship Model Forum

Hi Nicolas,
Thanks my Friend for checking in on my build , I'll be working on my hull this week and I will post some photos of it soon!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

A Tale of Two Fletcher�s by DD-555

This is a nonfiction story of the two Fletcher Class Destroyers I am currently building. With 175 Fletcher�s to choose from, I put a lot of thought into the two I chose to build. My first choice, the USS Haggard DD-555 is a tribute to the brave men who lost their lives and to those men who kept her afloat when she was struck by a kamikaze April 29, 1945 fifteen years before I was born. My second Fletcher, the USS Bennett DD-473 is a tribute to my grand father whom worked at the Boston Navy Yard during WWII where the Bennett was built. Both the DD-555 and DD-473 suffered damage and loss men by kamikaze attack.

The building of the USS Haggard DD-555 began in early 2011. At a time when finances for building a ship model were almost nonexistent I was able to purchase a new Lindberg Blue Devil kit on E-bay for $40 dollars. As many of us know, this kit is the worst representation of a Fletcher being sold today. I knew this before I began the build. The best thing about this kit is the fact that I was forced to perform very through research of the Fletcher Class Destroyer, which is an ongoing project in itself.
The hull is the biggest and most prominent part of any ship model. The Blue Devil�s hull is without a doubt the most inaccurate Fletcher hull in existence. I have never built a hull, so I decided to use the hull as is and rework everything from the deck up. If you�re interested in taking a look at my DD-555 build use this link and feel free to leave a comment. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=98554

The story of the USS Bennett DD-473 began more than a year after the DD-555 on this site April 29, 2012. I had and have high expectations for this build. Unlike the scale of the Haggard 1/125, almost every fitting needed for a 1/96 scale Fletcher is available and I imagined the hull would be more realistic as well. I placed orders for fittings, deck structures and the hull. As I waited for the hull to arrive, building of the deck structures and anti aircraft guns from John R. Haynes were underway.

Finally, on October 3rd I received the hull and remaining fittings from Lee of SSY. I gave the hull a quick once over and I noticed that the deck I got along with the deck structure set from CNC wasn�t the same shape as the bow and stern of the hull. Any way I set it aside and took inventory of the fittings I received using a copy of my order form and I�m still waiting for the roof of the bridge casting and a couple torpedo tube tips.

Last week end I began working on the hull. I glued the wood strips inside the top of the hull to support the edge of the deck and began making the stringers or cross support beams. I placed the hull upside down on top of the main deck plans and was shocked to find out the hull doesn�t match the shape of the deck as can be clearly seen in the photos.

Incorrect shape of the Bow: I traced the shape of the bow and stern on a piece of card stock and cut them out. The card stock cut out is on the main deck plan as seen in four photos in this post. Photos of the USS Cassin Young DD-793 at the Charlestown Navy Yard in Boston MA taken this father's day. These photos show the shape of the leading edge of the bow. Notice at the top it is almost the same width as the bow chock. Also notice that below the radius at the top of the bow the hull comes to a knife edge and at the bottom it bulges out. A couple photos taken of my hulls bow with the chock similar to the photos of Cassin Young.

Incorrect shape of the stern: This is one more detail I need to point out; as we look at the USS Twiggs photo notice the corners indicated do not have a radius they come to more of a sharp corner. Take a look at my hull. Notice that the starboard side is lower than the port side in this photo. The corners have radiuses, and it looks a lot different. Also my hull doesn't have a very defined shallow "V" shape, it's more rounded in shape. The skeg looks like it's off center as well. The overall length of a Fletcher is 376� 5� which translates to 47.052 inches in 1/96 scale. With the hull laying flat on my dining room table I placed a square against the tip of the bow and stern and the hull measures 46.812 inches long which is almost .240 (1/4) of an inch too short.

As you know the steps to make a fiberglass hull are as follows: first a hull plug is made, and then the mold is made of the plug. It�s safe to say that every hull made from that mold is the same as the hull I received. It�s ironic that both Fletcher�s I�m building have inaccurate hulls. I�m amazed, am I the first person to bring this to light. Flaws of this nature should have been fixed at the plug stage before a mold was made and put into production.

Options I�m considering to correct the shape of the hull. First I�m going to correct the shape of the bow and add � inch in length at the same time. I have a strip of brass 1/32� x �� I will have the leading edge of the bow contour on one side and have three or four prongs on the opposite side. I�ll drill holes in the bow and glue the brass cut out in place and apply some Bondo and reshape it according to the plans.

To repair the stern, I�m going to get some glass cloth and polyester resin and add a couple layers to the inside. Then I can re-contour the shape to match the drawing. Last but not least, I�ll add some Bondo to the port side of the transom to make it symmetrical in shape to the starboard side.

Some would say it�s not worth the effort, while others will say the Bennett is being built for RC use not a museum. My answer to that is yes and no. Yes it�s going to be an RC ship model on picket duty at the local pond. Most of the time she will be on display in my privet museum and every time I see her I�ll think about my grand father and the brave men who filled her decks and sailed her into harms way.

I really have my work cut out for me on this one, wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always, check back for more on the Bennett!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hi Everyone,
This photo of my two Fletcher's should have been under the title of my last post, but it would have made it 1 more photo than is allowed per post on this site. Any way Enjoy the view!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hi Roger,

Thanks for the excellent analysis of the SSY hull, your keen observations should be of great help to anyone attempting to use this hull. I have to root out my 1/96th hull from storage and have a close look at it in light of your observations. I am not sure who manufactured the hull I have, I got it from an estate sale with lots of fittings, but I think it might be a SSY hull.

Good luck with your builds!

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill,
I knew you would appreciate my observations of the SSY Fletcher hull. Thanks for taking the time to check it out.

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hi Everyone,
The Holidays are here once again and any available funds are being diverted to them. After the New Year I should be able to work on the hull.

Today I focused on finishing up the twin 20mm Oerlikons from John R. Haynes. The first one I built a while back I glued my fingers to the shoulder rest and it seemed the glue took so long to dry.

I made a cradle to hold the gun and I used a couple scrap sintra and styrene pieces to support the shoulder rest while the glue dried. It worked great and no stuck fingers. The gun shield and computing gun sight needed to have the brackets repaired. One bracket on each piece must have been broken while de-molding. I fixed the shields today. The gun sight will be more of a challenge because the bracket is sooooo smalllll.

Check back for more on the Bennett!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hello folks, brand new to this site, found this thread by chance doing research for my father in law who served as a gunner aboard the USS Guest, as you know, DD 472. I'm amazed at the work you're accomplishing. Wish the hands were as steady as they used to be, I'd love to tackle a project like this while Vic is still around to enjoy it. Keep up the great work, I'll be following your progress. Vic (Carlucci) was at the guns the day a kamikaze took out their stacks, it was his bullets pummeling the Zero that forced the plane higher preventing any loss of life. He was also called into duty to help recover burned victims from the ocean after another kamikaze had struck an aircraft carrier, an act I personally feel he should have been awarded a medal for. He has PTSD (under control now) and most of it relates to that memory, flesh sloughing off many of those men, into his hands as he was rescuing them. It's amazing what all those men went through in places like Okinawa. All that for a kid who lied about his age to join the Navy 2 years before he should have been allowed. Well, as I said before, keep up the great work. Rob D.

Hi Rob D.,
My grand Father worked at the Boston Navy Yard (BNY) during WWII. He helped build the Fletcher�s and all the other ships that sailed from BNY.

Next time you see your Father in Law say hello to him for me. I am very grateful for his service to the United States Armed Forces. Vic and many other men to young to join fought and died so our nation and the world would be free from tyranny. Where would we be without brave men like Vic Carlucci?

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Rodger,

A couple of posts back you attached a photo of the rear deck blueprint which included the heart-shaped tub for the triple 20mm guns. Is this the same tub which they used for the conversion to handle 3 40mm twin Bofors? Or was that 40mm tub larger?

Along the lines of size: do you have the dimensions in 'real feet" for the tub? And how tall are the walls of the gun tubs? Does that vary with location on the vessel?

I've got to scratch build the rear 40mm tub and the newer two 40mm tubs amidship for my Leutze build and any help would be appreciated. (nobody seems to be giving me any feedback on my thread lol but I'll live through it. )

Drop me a PM.
thanks, if you can help. (and thanks even if you can't)

PS: the Twiggs was DD-591 not 596 ... probably just a typo

Hi Cody,
Thanks, The 596 was a typo and I'll correct it if I can. The plans you're referring to are of the USS Sigsbee DD-502. She's a round bridge Fletcher, but main structures are similar enough to use as an aid to scratch building on any Fletcher. Be careful to use any original photos of the ship you're building or her sister ships when scratch building for your build.

A couple posts back you can see a mistake I made while making bulwark for the Mk-51 gun directors on top of the Nav Bridge. I scaled the dimensions from the Sigsbee drawings and I was looking at the Fullam�s photo, a close sister of the Bennett when I made the bulwark. Then I looked at the close-up of the Bennett's bridge and ripped them off and made a new set.

The Sigsbee's BU of Ships drawing's are in 1/96 scale (1/8" = 1') and they�re FREE!!!!!!!!!! It�s best to have them printed at a FedEx store. If you print them from the PDF you will have to overlap and tape the pages together and it�s not worth the waste of time to do it. Believe me, I tried it. Some of the pages don�t line up very well.
Download them at this link: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/dd502.pdf

HNSA has many sets of free ship plans take a look at the whole list where the Sigsbee plans are listed as well at this link: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/index.htm

Note: some of the plans are incomplete, but they�re all FREE!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

thanks Rodger

The Sigbee general plans will help.

Of course the Abbot blue prints are available ... but they scared me spitless when I first looked at them! LOL That collection would scare anybody ... and I'm not sure I have room on my hard drive for them all!

maybe somebody will have an idea of the height of the gun tub walls?

I can't keep up ... there are too many words in your postings to search for questions.

The height of the bulwarks around 40-mm gun mounts vary. There was a specified height from the foundation ring to the top of the "tub" that was to be parallel to the foundation. Because of the camber of the decks varied, the height of the bulwark varied. (see the attached drawings for DD-508 as modified ) The forward twin 40-mm installations before the bridge were very complex in dimensions and had varying physical height all the way around. The typical working circles for twin 40-mm mounts was a 7-ft radius. The attached top pair of drawings show a height of 3-ft 8-in from the foundation to the top of the bulwark. The BIW drawings shown at the bottom call out a bulwark height of 3-ft 3-in around the mount. So if you need an "APPROX" height ... 3-ft 6-in will work. Deck camber isn't very noticeable (if included at all) on many kits.

I'm not sure which 40-mm tubs you are planning on scratch building when you say the "aft" twin 40-mm ... do you mean fantail or atop the deckhouse between 53 and 54 mounts? The above posted images of the 20-mm "tub" on the fantail wasn't used for 40-mm guns. See the attached images of the aft deckhouse twin 40-mm installation that was typical. There was some variation depending on which director was installed or when the ship was built.

The BGP drawings like those available of SIGSBEE are useful, but have limitations. One; the BGPs were not dimensioned except for the frame numbers (one frame equals 21-in). Two; BGP drawings were updated as changes were made to the ship, and depending on who and skill of the person doing the updates ... the modified drawings may or MAY NOT be completely accurate. Normally they started out with very accurate basic drawings of the hull and superstructures. It is as the ships were modified that some changes may not be shown at all or are not to scale.

The drawings on the ABBOT website may be difficult to grasp, but they are copies of the engineering drawings used to BUILD these ships and generally include dimensions. The ABBOT posted drawings are the same (or type) as from the Destroyer History Org BIW FLETCHER Class Engineering drawings available on DVD for $30. Yes it isn't free, but free may not give you everything that you need/want.

In 1/700 and 1/350 scale, scaling the BGP drawings likely will be "close enough" to scratch-build features. For the larger scale kits, such features may need more attention.

Rick E Davis wrote:I can't keep up ... there are too many words in your postings to search for questions.

who me? Any future questions will be in bold red to make them easy to find! roflmao

Thanks Rick oodles for the info. I will PM you after I survey the information in your post if I have any questions.

But I sure don't wanna hijack this wonderful thread of Rodger's!

Don't worry Roflmao/Cody,
I don't mind the detour especially when Rick posts fine info like he just did here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Rick you always have great images and research to share!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hi Everyone,
I have a small front porch made of wood and when hear foot steps it�s usually the mail person stuffing my mail box with junk mail. So the other day I heard the foot steps and when I opened my front door there was a long thin box leaning against the wall.

I brought the box in and looked to see who it came from and opened it. The Famous Ship Builder from Brooklyn, Jerry Orfano sent me a 1/96 scale Fletcher hull. Over the past few months Jerry has become a very close friend who is closer than my own brothers. I have learned a lot from him following his many ship builds at WMU. I am very proud to call him Friend and Brother.

I will be using the hull he gave me for the Bennett!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much my Brother!!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

PS, Sorry I forgot to mention that I received the hull 11/29/12

Hi Everyone,
Rick has been such a great help and blessing to me; he sent me a high resolution scanned image of the Bennett on Christmas day.
It was such a surprise and what an amazing gift. I have been under the weather lately but I want to share it with you. The same image appears on the first page of this thread as a very poor quality photo. The quality of this image is astounding compared to the copy I found online when I started my build. I would like to wish everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Rodger,

Looking at your "Christmas picture" it just impresses me with the fact that the Fletchers were so variable. Not only within the class but also over time for the same boat!

In 1945 the Bennett was a completely different vessel than she was in 1943. Especially amidships. Of course one can't compare 'apples' to 'oranges' but when it comes to Fletchers one can't even compare oranges to oranges!

Just one of those times when a modeler has to pick a specific DAY for the build ... and never look at the other pictures just to keep from getting completely confused! I had to do that with my Cutty Sark.

PS: does this new hull mean we finally get to see some serious building now? roflmao

codythecatt wrote:Rodger,

Looking at your "Christmas picture" it just impresses me with the fact that the Fletchers were so variable. Not only within the class but also over time for the same boat!

In 1945 the Bennett was a completely different vessel than she was in 1943. Especially amidships. Of course one can't compare 'apples' to 'oranges' but when it comes to Fletchers one can't even compare oranges to oranges!

Just one of those times when a modeler has to pick a specific DAY for the build ... and never look at the other pictures just to keep from getting completely confused! I had to do that with my Cutty Sark.

PS: does this new hull mean we finally get to see some serious building now? roflmao

Yes, the New Year will bring lots of progress especially with the hull and drive line!!!!!

The metamorphosis of the Bennett during WWII is quite amazing. I wonder how many months during the war she spent in port being modified? The Fletcher's were an amazing bunch!!!!!!!

Roger DD-473/DD-555

Hello Roger

I look forward to seeing your work of the new year
Happy new year
nicolas