The Ship Model Forum

Bill Waldorf wrote: In 1/96, the 7.5MM is neglegable. In my opinion,you would'nt notice it. So, the same would hold true for smaller scales, assuming the thinner material is used. I would trim the frames if the overall tolerance was over the 7.5MM in 1/96th scale. This is all assuming the drawings one would use are correct. Most times they are not. I'm sure I'll catch hell for this!!!

It's an interesting point. I'd know it was wrong to not take into account the sheeting thickness when cutting the frames - I made allowance for this in my Dreadnought - but at the size of the finished hull, it is pretty unnoticeable. And just how many viewers want to apply calipers to measure the beam of a finished model?

That said, do you not find that the extra 7.5mm in width (which must make it up to the deck edge) means that you have to tweak the superstructure somewhat, or just add an extra plank or two? Where/how do you subtly "lose" the difference, Bill?

My last ship, a 1/100th HMS Lion made a hundred years ago, was made "sheet over full size frame", and caused me much grief around the boat deck structure. I had to tweak angles not just dimensions to get things to fit...and that feels very wrong.

Andy

I've been having the exact same conundrum here on my clyde steamer!!.....In the end I've decided to shave a bit off the frames, but at 1/16" on each side of the hull at 1:90 I suppose its not a big deal really......the plans are not exact anyway, and the whole process seems to be one of compromise.

Tweak? If I had a penny for every tweak I've had to make on my models, I'd have enough cash to pay BILL to build them!

It's impossible to build a model w/out tweaking, in my opinion. I think the key is to have a finished product that accurately represents the original. Unless you have those guys that show up with their reference books and laser measuring devices.

In my model railroading hobby, we call 'em "Rivet Counters"

Andy G wrote:

Bill Waldorf wrote: In 1/96, the 7.5MM is neglegable. In my opinion,you would'nt notice it. So, the same would hold true for smaller scales, assuming the thinner material is used. I would trim the frames if the overall tolerance was over the 7.5MM in 1/96th scale. This is all assuming the drawings one would use are correct. Most times they are not. I'm sure I'll catch hell for this!!!

It's an interesting point. I'd know it was wrong to not take into account the sheeting thickness when cutting the frames - I made allowance for this in my Dreadnought - but at the size of the finished hull, it is pretty unnoticeable. And just how many viewers want to apply calipers to measure the beam of a finished model?

That said, do you not find that the extra 7.5mm in width (which must make it up to the deck edge) means that you have to tweak the superstructure somewhat, or just add an extra plank or two? Where/how do you subtly "lose" the difference, Bill?

My last ship, a 1/100th HMS Lion made a hundred years ago, was made "sheet over full size frame", and caused me much grief around the boat deck structure. I had to tweak angles not just dimensions to get things to fit...and that feels very wrong.

Andy

The superstruce will grow as well as I proceed, not quite as much. The drawings of the hull sections are a bit undersize to begin with in relation to the main deck. So, givin that, I'm probably off less then the 7.5mm I stated. It'll all come together. There will be a bit of "tweaking". If you can scratchbuild any givin subject without that, let me know..............

For what it is worth...

If it LOOKs right... then that is all that matters!

No model can be perfect--tere will always be a scale /detail compromise somehwere--but if the model has the Spirit and feel of the real thing--thats what matters!!

There are many near perfect models... that are just ' dead'...

Bill-your models have a goood 'feel'--its indfinable--but you know hat I mean!



I am watching with great interest!

JIM B

You guys know me, and you know my work as it has been posted here many times. I would not build something that was not Damn Close to the real thing. I strive for the utmost of accuracy, but we are sometimes limited by the availablity of research materials. I model what I can see. Or, what I can reasonably assume would be accurate in the absence of said research materials. And yes there is "tweaking". Everything is tweaked before becoming a reality. Things may be a little big or a little small or a bit crooked as I progress, but I can work that out. Rest assured, this will be a first class BB. I think what Jim B means is that it looks like it should look, a ship, along with all it's little imperfections. That's what a good "Feel" is. I'm glad you are all watching, it keeps me on my toes! Stay tuned......................................

JIM BAUMANN wrote:For what it is worth...
If it LOOKs right... then that is all that matters!

<nods to Jim>

Oh yes, I agree...and Bill is certainly the fella for that: I'm looking forward to this build very much, and there's loads for me to learn.

Keep it coming, Bill!

Andy

Hi Bill
I belive all model builders are perfectionist and your work shows that. I know that if you felt that a few silly mm made a difference then you would have done something about it .
Keep up the good work , you have inspired me to get out of my chair and build something and that is what this message board is supposed to do .

Hello again fellow shipbuilders!! Well, I have an update on the Indiana build. If you've following along, you'll know the framework has been fabricated so it's now time to start the first layer of sheeting on the ship. I'll be using 1/16" soft sheet balsa on this first layer. By soft, I mean that it will bend easily without breaking for the most part, and without having to get it wet. This first layer is time consuming, and will look a bit rough but it is to get the general shape of the hull only. Subsequent layers will be laminated to this first one, staggering all the joints. These additional layers will smooth things out alot. Let's take a look....................

Here's the starboard side. As I said, things are a bit rough but will improve as I continue with the sheeting process. The hull is firming up well.

Here's the ship upside down looking at the port side. Sheeting almost finished here. Note how I have tried to fit the sheets as tight as possible. I've fashioned a simple jig to keep things from moving as I install the sheets. This area cannot be sheeted in one big piece, too many compound curves ,so I'll make the sheets smaller as I go forward. Where the sheeting butts together, I'll add another frame for strength.

Here's the stb. side again. Note how the outboard skegs blend into the hull. 5 bladed props here, 4 bladed for the inboard props with struts instead of skegs, with twin rudders just aft of the inboard props.

Another view of the same side. Again note that the sheeting fits together pretty tight. Any gaps will be covered up with subsequent layers. You can see a little wood putty here and there. This first soft layer is very fragile cause it's thin. Easy to push a finger rite thru it!

Here's the stern. The very aft portion will be carved balsa blocks installed between the frames, after all the sheeting has been installed. Again note the outboard skegs. These are a pain to model since I have really no drawings of them and very limited photos. Plus they have to be a mirror image of one another. These will look a lot better after shaping with autobody filler later on in the build. I think the general shape is correct. Again, 5 bladed props here.

Dead on view of the stern here. Note the catamaran shape. Inboard shafts, struts and rudders will be added after all sheeting is completed. Should look pretty good when all is shaped in.

Here's another view of the skegs. Note how they curve and that the props are at a slight angle outboard.
Another view here. I got 'em pretty close! Again, I think this is correct. I really don't know for sure. Trying to do the best I can with what I have as far as reference material goes!! Well, thats it for now. Back to the sheeting process!! Stay tuned............. I continue on...................

I don�t want to clutter the thread (not too much, at least ) but Indiana is in the very first steps and is already showing as a work of art.

You are absolutely great at this, Bill. Really a master.



Cheers.
Pachi.

What a nice hull Bill
Assembly with high precision

Sandpapering is not a too great operation


I remark the same thing for my Scratchbuilts,

"When the first assembly is made with precision,
the work after is reduce"



Jef

Great progress thus far Bill, she's looking good.

I have a curiousity question for you. When you laid out the frames did you reduce them a particular percentage to account for the multi-layers of hull sheeting?

Keep up the good work.

Bruce

Looks great Bill , teach us more !

Simply fantastic!

Bill, looks awesome. Very impressive

Hello again ! First layer of 1/16" balsa now finished on the hull. I have also cut out the main deck pattern. This gives a better idea of how the ship will look as I proceed. Lets take a look.................

Here's the port side. Note the deck pattern placed on the hull. I glue the paper drawing to posterboard and then cut it out before transfering it to the material I will work with, in this case for the main deck that will be 1/8" ocume plywood. The pattern is easy to trace once it's on the thicker posterboard.

Here's the stb. side of the ship. Note the armor belt area not yet complete, read on!

Port side again. Note the deck pattern is pretty close to the hull outline so I am not as far off as I thought I would be(7.2mm). I'll be more like 3.0mm overall, oversize.

Port side forward here. The gap between the first two sheets of balsa will be covered up by the next layer as all joints will be staggered.

Stb. side aft. Lots of stuff to put on that main deck!! Again note the pattern lines up with the hull pretty close.

Dead on stern view here. I'm pleased with the general shape of the hull so far. Some fine tuning yet to come.

Dead on bow view. The area that is not sheeted will be sculpted with autobody filler. Note the bulbous bow taking shape.

Another view of the bow area.

Here's the armor belt area, stb. side. I've finished this off with .040 styrene sheet, over 1/16" balsa. Note the start of the second layer of balsa just below the belt. Lots of detail to add here as I continue.

Another view of the armor belt, stb. side. Styrene works well here as it adds a lot of strength and rigidity.

3/4 view of the stb. side here. The model has an almost 14" beam at it's widest point!

Another view of the armor belt area on the stb. side. Again note the start of the second layer of balsa sheeting.

One more look!! That's it for tonite. On to completing the second layer of balsa, then on to epoxy resin to seal the structure........ Stay Tuned!!
I continue on.....................................................

Very good build Bill! Can't wait to see more. While they were imposing ships, the SoDaks had not the most graceful of hull shapes! Yours does justice do them though and I mean that in a good way!

Avery Boyer wrote:Very good build Bill! Can't wait to see more. While they were imposing ships, the SoDaks had not the most graceful of hull shapes! Yours does justice do them though and I mean that in a good way!

I agree, not the most graceful of hull configurations. Difficult to duplicate, too. I'm getting there!

Hi Bill a really interesting build. Question does you second layer come right up to the deck level ?
Dave Wooley

Dave Wooley wrote:Hi Bill a really interesting build. Question does you second layer come right up to the deck level ?
Dave Wooley

Yes, Dave, it will. Givin that, the main deck will be a bit oversize, as I said. About 3mm overall. Hope your enjoying this build. You are a very knowledgeble person and I have much respect for you. Your comments are always welcome. Thanks for the post!