The Ship Model Forum

Luvit!

XXXDAn

She starts to come to life with the crew added.. Very nice work... Following this closely as I have to make a decision on the material for Victory's Sails very soon.

Hello all!

Today I was given by another lady friend (!! ) some more lace type mesh.
( the darker one laid next to the previously favourite white one )

I have studied and debated this; I think the new mash may have a tighter weave ?

anyhow-- have also made another set of sails --this time using 2 mm seam spacing

Have cut and moulded these in the oven as before
and I have been gluing 0.1 mm copper wire ( butt edge to edge join! to the paper ) around 3 sides to simulate the boltropes
but also because that way I can shape the leeches to orientate correctly to sheet tension and direction.

It also holds the shape permanently !

The sail attached to teh yard is the lower foresail,

is are shown here BEFORE painting

( I shall be using watercolours --hence I have sealed the paper with varnish)

we shall see if the layers of thin paint will degrade the harshness of the seams and give a softer feel

will report in soon

regards

Jim Baumann

Hello Jim,

one of the nets has a hexagonal shape - I do not think, that this is a correct historical form.

XXXDAn

well now....

The netting has NOT stalled the build, but it is always at the forefront of my thoughts...

I reckon I need to install the netting before the ratlines, ( otherwise the netting install will damage the ratlines)
although the netting will make the passing through of lines( halyards and hoists etc to the belaying pinrails at the bases
of the masts more complicated and mean that I will inhibit any access to the waist and aft decks; so must
carefully consider that I am FINISHED in those areas...

so I have been making paper templates for the netting sections using
'post-it' notes--using the tacky side ( much de-tacked further with fingers !!)
==> to adhere gently to the central longitudinal bars whilst doing a gentle pencil 'rubbing' of the outside perimeter...



Now then....!!!

" our " HMS Victory man Dafi.... really very kindly indeed sent me some of his netting.

now coming from him of course--he being the "�ber-stickler" for precise detail...

obviously then.... it is a nice diagonal weave and is woven of satisfyingly thin thread lines ,
so that really is unarguable with, to this netting now not being the preferred netting for my model of HMS Mary Rose-

-allowing a view of the decks whilst being ' netted' !

a MONSTER enlargement comparative photo of the 'old' and the ' new' below....===> I think my mind is now made up!

DANKE !!

Hello Jim

I am glad that you found your mesh and Thank you for sharing for manufacture of sails
cheers

Nicolas

well after a few evenings of gluing 0.1 mm wire to the outside edge of the sails,

some paintwork directly on the sails and gluing to the brass tapered yard-arms,

I decided to let it all dry for a while-!

-before overcoating the sails inside and out in matt varnish .

I will then very gently work into the sails a bit more with watercolours, a few very subtle light hues.
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I have been studying the various rigging diagrams- standing and running...
amazing how much rigging --even a simple rig as this had,-so much of it for relatively subtle sail control, mainly to
ensure the leading edges of the sail could not invert

clever!

I shall simulate the lashing of the sails to the yards with sharp blade edge of pencil ( have done some experiments-- effect looks quite pleasing..
I intend to make a start on making the crows feet for brailing lines next....

but first I must install the anti-boarding netting, then the ratlines-( which will be quite e a game of alignment !!!

and then the yards-- note that these have caenis ties to give a mechanical bond twixt mast and spar.
( which will be backed up with glue before endeavouring to simulate the parrel ribs-( rope and ball bearing cage for yards to roate ,
to move up and down the mast when hoisted/ lowered)- these were-it seems painted a yellow....

another dash of colour is always a good thing!!


The sequence of the rigging procedure/ method will ' evolve' ...

JIM B

Coming on nicely !

inevitably... I had to try out the netting in action on the ship

i have only applied half -
-


so that I can still place some rope coils on the belaying benches at the mast baes
( coils are in build now )



along with the coiled tails of the halyard braces and the sail braces

anyhow

herewith some pics of the much discussed and fabled antiboarding netting
and some of the ratlines port side--

The ratlines were quite tricky to get aligned to allow the footropes to be horizontal
The AOTS book shows the footropes to be inclined--but I have yet to see any ratlines with the footropes at an angle on any ship
The netting was glued on with tiny bits of CA, the nylon or polyester based mesh being quite recalcitrant to my
gluing endeavours...

Once installed the outer cut edges were covered up with thin pieces of stretched brown sprue that hid the raw edges
The Scale Warship ratlines were OK-- but I felt that the dead-eyes were a bit spindly for my linking

so I cut some more substantial deadeyes of a 1/600 "Saemann" set (from Germany
which looked more in keeping to my ideas

The overall end effect is better-

-I intend to add the dots and lashing ends with a fine Rotring pen

Just wonderfull, Jim
Glad you can handle twezers again...
Cheers
Rui

It is always a pleasure to follow you work.

After visiting the Mary Rose recently, I decided to build the kit, thinking it would be straightforward, even with the aftermarket PE set. I'm resetting my timeline expectations after viewing your incredible work. The netting research comes in very handy.


This is simply astonishing and you haven't even gotten to rigging yet. The bar is set very high.

Amazed.

@ Cropredy ( home of Jensen Interceptor renovations...?)

It is indeed a build that gets increasingly trickier as you proceed with it-

-the starting point--as far as can be ascertained is actually quite fair--developed in conjunction with the Mary Rose trust.

Its just is a simplified and very affordable little kit....!

However-- I feel like a path-finder/ trailblazer building this , as I am also having an intensive course in Tudor sailing ship practice and
sailing ships in general-- especially the functions of the rigging -- study of books is mighty well advised!!
==================================================================================================

meanwhile--onwards...
the mesh--was dyed in a really really( almost treacly!) strong mix of instant coffee, as neither tea of other dyes would touch it!!

I ' fixed' the dye ( hopefully ) in a bath of vinegar ) -- useful that Katrin's kitchen is well stocked !

Before adding more mesh...(!) I added rope coils at all masts on the belaying rails at the bases of the masts, as well as some rope coils on the waist deck and foc'sle

These wree made by winding thin beige thread around cocktail sticks 5 turns at a time, covering in white glue to soak and then wiping away excess.
Once set I slipped the off the cocktail stics, cut, shaped and applied!



Cutting the mesh with scissors ( sharp new Fiskars orange handles needlework long blade) was very successful, the cut edges were crisp and accurate,
however so as to prevent distortion of the netting whilst cutting I sandwiched the mesh in between the tacky part of a post-it note
and my template( made using the tacky part of the post-it note.
This meant that the open edges of the mesh were supported whilst cutting and template removal, without distortion


Once glued in place using minute amounts of glue applied on the end of a piece of copper wire, I covered the raw edges with pieces of stretched brown sprue .
This gave a crisp outline and a welcome bit of contrast in brown and beige

==> result was satisfactory!

the fwd ratline ' shelf--a bit conjectural amybe-- but needed because of the shape of the vessel was added afterwards I completed the installation of the ratlines, these were generally ok--though suspect my mast positions may have been out a wee bit.

It is unfortunate that the horizontal foot-ropes are etched the same diameter as the vertical shrouds,
I endeavoured to disguise this somewhat-not completely successful alas-- by dry-brushing the foot-ropes from above downwards only in a lighter brown

The channels ( shelf!) that form the bottom of the ratlines are alas a bit clunky on the kit moulding ( note to self--assume nothing! )
-I mitigated this by gluing on a piece of brass wire --this reduced the visual impact a bit...
The deadeye lashings--which I used from the an old Saemann PE set -- were all added., blocks painted on a lighter wood, individual
lashings lightly drybrushed and the 'eyes' marked in with a Rotring pen- this required quitea few gos at times as the deadyes are very small and it was not always perfect first time !!
the 'chains' underneath the channels were added uisng black stretched sprue glued on and trimmed in situ with liquid cement

( as per my usual rigging method

see here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37536

the effect at normal viewing distance is pleasing as it removes the ' blank' look of the deadeyes otherwise
( Of course the best option would be to do it ' properly !!! )... but I fear that I doubt It could do it repeatable accurately...

I am currently working on the sails again-- as the installation of te sails and spars will soon dictate the pace and assembly order of further works

( which incidentally -I am making up as I go along--as conundrums present themselves I try and adapt or solve!

Regards

JIM B

OMG

Cheers, Jabb

For the dead-eyes, I gather, one could use paper discs on which short strands of (twisted) wires are glued. The volume of the dead-eye is made up with blobs of white glue. I believe McNarry is using a method like this.

For cutting in the rigging I am using eye-surgery micro-scissors. I got mine from a stand on a flea-market that sold 'seconds' of medical tools, but I think today they can be obtained quite easily via ebay. They come in different sizes and in an either curved or straight variety.

....All day I have had a feeling that something was wrong with my model....

bothersome...


Eureka!

I had ' dotted' almost all my deadyees incorrectly--

a quick repaint this evening and tomorrow I shall 'dot' the correct way round.

==> Moral of the story..-- do not rely on what one thinks one knows....

the correct way is a below

Oh Jim, how could you!!!

But the rest is wonderfully done

XXXDAn

Ah, yes, I was just about to point out that your deadeyes were upside down but you beat me to it

As for woolding, it was used to keep the various bits that a "made mast" consisted of together. A made mast was a mast that was assembled from smaller pieces of timber, made necessary as A) masts got thicker and taller and B) all the really thick and tall trees were chopped down. Whether the Mary Rose would have had made masts or not is anybody's guess really - it's not inconceivable that big enough trees were still available at the time. Or not. Anyway, I see you have confined yourself to doing woolding on the main and fore lower masts, which is perfectly correct.

The "banding" that you refer to which connects the upper end of the lower mast to the topmast was actually a rather massive lump of wood, the "cap", normally a more or less brick-shaped piece with one, often square, hole for the top of the lower mast and another, round, hole for the topmast.

Thank you for your input...- - I shall be installing a cap...

wolding indeed... none of the drawings show it--but contemporary illustrations of similar vessel of that size seem to suggest that
wolding was used on the main and fwd masts...

whilst on the subject of matter sailing ancient...

some illustrations of the perios suggest that the latten aft sails--mizzen and bonaventure where set in an unusual fashipn

ie with the leech to windward

( kind of asymmetric spinnaker style !--

encs images below

I have made the sails already so I shall be presenting the model like this-- it is an interesting look ,a talking point backed up...

rightly or wrongly by illustrations of the time

( I guess it was less effort to present the yard like this rather than get the yard round the mast to clear shrouds on to the stb side? )

encs

waddayallthink?

JIM B




regards

Jim B